Rich writes: "It's entirely possible that Reid's incendiary charge has nothing to back it up but an unsubstantiated rumor ... But there are two important distinctions between Reid and McCarthy."
US Sen. Harry Reid speaks at the National Clean Energy Summit in Las Vegas, 08/07/12. (photo: AP)
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Just like the criminal Republicans with their accusations about Obama's birth certificate? Grow up. Both parties are full of "criminals" as are most of the "talking heads" on t.v.
[quote name="DPM"]
There's just this wee tiny difference: Obama answered the call, and produced his birth certificate. And Mitt...?
Oh, come on now. If this makes Reid a criminal, what do all the lies the Republicans and tea partiers tell about Obama make them? At least Romney can clear his name, if it isn't true, by releasing his tax returns just as his father did. On the other hand, when Obama released his birth certificate, both short form and long form, that still hasn't silenced the claim by his detractors that he really isn't an American.
These folks will never stop claiming that Obama isn't an American, because they "know" in the their heart of hearts that no one who looks like him can ever be a real American. Every birther I've ever engaged has claimed to be constitutional originalists. The most he can ever be under an originalist view of the Constitution is 3/5 of an American.
I mean, he hasn't accused Romney of 24 counts of murder as Rep. Wm Dannemayer (R, CA) did to Clinton in 1994, or shipping drugs into Arkansas, laundering drug money through ADFA, etc. The list of unsubstantiated and eventually dis-proven accusations made by "conservative" politicians goes on for a dozen pages.
We need only remind ourselves of the unsubstantiated allegations of crimes by Obama. From death threats against Chelsea Clinton to "forging" his Selective Service
Registration card.
Reid has used O'Leilly, Limpbaah, and the rest of the far-right echo chamber's troubling gambit of saying "I've heard."
"Conservatives" have used this tactic to bully the American people for 40 years, but when someone gives them back a little of the treatment they distribute wholesale to those who disagree with them, they run off crying "He's being mean to me."
I think you're just jealous that Harry might be stealing a page from your playbook.
(Harry: Keep up the good work!) :D
Sheesh! When will you people (Frank Rich included) get your heads on straight? I'm not a Reid fan but what he said makes perfect sense. Can you think of any possible reason Romney would not release his tax records, when not doing so is so very damaging to his run for the Presidency? There can be only one reason and that is that there is something there even more damaging. And nothing other than that he didn't pay any taxes presents itself as that reason. In this case, the absence of tax records is pretty sound evidence that no taxes were paid. And for a politician to make a statement of any kind based on evidence of such strength is indeed rare.
So you're saying that you do not like the way Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity, O'Reilly, Romney, Rove, Beck, Bush the Lesser, The Cheneys, Faux Nues, and virtually all supporters of the "conservative" movement conduct themselves.
It seems you folks can dish it out, but you can't take it.
Hope it goes public soon. Meantime, we already know who is the real Dirty Liar, he has been lying his way thru his entire campaign. Don't trust him for a minute.
YEP, the Real Dirty Liar is Obummer, no hope no change...just blame everyone but himself.
He is the Anti-Truman. The buck stops everywhere but the Oval Office..a disgraceful do nothing President!
Obama had a super majority and got everything the Dems wanted in his first two years. If he didn't pass it that is his fault!
All he and the Dems kept saying those first two years was "elections have consequences" and the Repubs could come along for the ride but not make decisions...tho se are the facts!
In 2010 there was another election and the people spoke, they did not like the Dems running everything and Harry Reid has been the one obstructing...p lenty has passed the House but Harry stops it in the Senate...FACT!
Quoting WestWinds:
Sigh. Why do you guys persist in thinking that you're going to change anyone's opinion here by spewing insult-laden patent lies?
Leaving aside the issue of the Blue Dog DINOs, the Democratic Party had a supermajority a whopping four months, much of which was spent in recess.
Warning: End of Fact-free zone; proceed at your own intellectual peril:
http://washingtonindependent.com/74033/the-four-month-supermajority
In fact, it already pretty much looks like the Super Wealthy Class has been so successful acquiring vast wealth in recent decades that they have decided to simply try and purchase the White House and Congress in the upcoming election. Perhaps its just because they looked around at their endless inventory of stuff and decided they didn't have a big White House in the center of D.C., and Building with a Dome on Top or even a Super Power Country among their possessions yet... So.., why not own one of each now..?
Ka Ching..! Its the future..!
Going once, Going twice....
Stay Tuned..!
LOVE IT!!!!!
This time around I call it the Gilded Cage because we have more trappings of what should represent the good life.
All those worried about a foreign terrorist have more to fear from our own government. But as long as our population can have a gun, they "think" they are free and the government, run by big money, can't control their lives. My advice: you will only need ONE bullet in your gun!
Did you read the same story the rest of us read?!
McCarthy was a Democrat who later became a Republican. An old college professor of mine had worked for him, and said McCarthy believed he was right, though adopted such dirty tactics that the professor quit. Sen Margret Chase Smith (R-Maine)deplor ed and spoke out on the tactics though she did agree later, that there were some threats similar to what he blew out of all rational proportion. Joe was an alcoholic, as I understand it, and some have said was given deliberately false information by "friends" in the CIA so they could discredit him to serve "higher' purposes for them. Sort of like the Lloyd Bentsen III blow back that has a surprising late update at http://www.texasmonthly.com/preview/2012-05-01/feature
Reid is not likely to become a Republican or an alcoholic victim of his "friends" setting him up (though McCarthy set himself up as much or more than they did)
If I was advising Romney, I would take just one of the ten years that the libs are lying about, redact all of the lines on the tax form (1040) except for the "total tax" line to prove that he did in fact pay taxes which makes Reid a liar. which we all know anyway. Even the lapdog liberal press knows Reid is lying.
Just wondering if you have any 'pet' names for the Conservative Press... or even the Fox 'Press'...?
I have a few I love. None of which ever fail to get both a rise and a laugh when mentioned...
I think it comes from the ironic side of living in a country where anyone can call anything 'News'.. or a 'Journal'...
Besides, the point is not whether the press is liberal (it is) or conservative (it is not) but that Reid is a LIAR!!!!
The many you 'compare' are mostly a joke themselves. Either blatantly Corporate Conservative mouthpieces. or pure nonsense-news tabloid, or like MSNBC, a staged 'Fox-Responder. ' By which I mean, and even as I might agree with much of what they present as information, is just a mirror to Fox as a self appointed Fox critic-- which I also think is a part of a major problem with what is now called 'News' and 'Journalism' in America and that there is really no Fairness Doctrine driven centered platform of News Diversity to deliberately expose Americans to differing viewpoints in current America, where all can now simply tune out what they do not 'like' and tune to only what they think they agree with, while perhaps never being exposed to differing viewpoints. Thus exacerbating National division and severity.
Media as an aggregate-cable , broadcast, print, publishing, entertainment.. , is now almost all owned, controlled and readily exploited by just a very few huge, Global Corporate Conglomerates like mini information-con trol Empires thanks to 30 years of massive, scheming Business Conservative Deregulation efforts. Most of that outcome is indeed Conservative by its very 'Business' oriented nature.., and because it is beholden only to the best interests of its wealthiest major, often Global, Shareholders-- not to Americans and the best interest of the country.
True, but blown out of all reasonable proportion.
The "communists" were as ineffective here as our spies were in Russia. We have much more common sense than to be swayed by communists, or, as I prefer, counter-product ively violent socialists who never came close to the utopian dreams they tried to force on everyone.
Rather, do as William F. Buckley, Jr. did and hire Whittaker Chambers http://old.nationalreview.com/flashback/2001200511220837.asp so that he could debate the logic at a much higher level than the bumper-sticker, 6-second MSM clips, and massive but narrow back channel blog distortions that we see so "cleverly" used today.
I imagine it would be a milder version of Leon Uris' "QB VII" where a writer was sued for libel by a concentration camp doctor. The doctor "won" the legal case but was awarded damages of one half-penny, for the monetary damage to what was left of his (deserved) reputation.
A similar case seems to relate, also. Don't know if it's true, but I heard a man was sued for calling a Countess a pig. When they ruled against him, he asked if it was legal to call a pig, "Countess." When assured that would be legal, he tipped his hat and said "Good day Countess."
I'd actually be more polite, but I think the point will be understood.
And you know in your heart of hearts the loopholes & ingenious accounting schemes always DO align in their favor.
The tone was far more important than the message, to Lenin. He could describe exactly the same thing using extremely negative language when using it with opponents and glowing words when it suited his side
Tell this to Limbaugh.
WestWinds, I hear ya but, i don't expect "fascists" like Rush to "behave" but when progressives (not that i consider Reid a true progressive) adopt the tactics of our enemies, even if we win, we become the thing that we've been fighting about. The ends do not justify the means (one of the key lessons learned from experiences like the Russian Revolution)...M eans matter...So, just because Rush does something that makes it o.k. for "our side" to do the same?
I agree that progressives (of which Reid is certainly not one) and good people will not generally justify means simply by their intended ends.
However, I have a different reaction to this particular issue. Unless Reid knowingly lied (which none of us can know based on evidence to this moment), he is doing nothing wrong at all. Even if he is making the claim without ANY basis, there is fairly good reason to suspect his claim is essentially true.
Reid's tactic may just serve notice to the noise-makers from the reactionary-rig ht that swords cut both ways, or, as that old saw went, "what goes around comes around". It's a lot harder to keep a straight face decrying unsubstantiated claims when you've been making a career of it.
I don't always give you a thumbs up, but don't think I've ever given you a thumbs down for expressing your opinion from where you see it.
Where to draw the line? I liked Buzz Aldrin's line http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/20/buzz-aldrin-punches-moon_n_241664.html and like to believe the judge told the conspiracy theorist he'd have punched him, too.
There are limits to tolerance for relentless provocation.
Obama is just a wannabe in their circles. Robme is the real deal together with the Koch brothers and Sheldon Adelson.
Obama is just passing through, these other punks were there before Obama and they will be there after Obama. They have always been there since this country was first founded. The names and labels may have changed, but their mindset and goals are the same.
I don't have the ten grand to throw away, but I've been voicing around that exact same theory. Remember, McCain thought Palin was a better choice than Romney when even I would have been a better choice than Palin.
this is all about finding the minimum amount of people necessary to vote and keep the country running as is, while cutting off everyone else.
this is about NOT talking about the issues, not giving us numbers, not giving us facts, not caring about the needs of Americans, and kowtowing to the international rich ... this is just not right, but the ads do not get at the problem at all.
It was a brilliant tactical move, with no "down-side", and notable and newsworthy for one reason only... which is the rarity of Democrats making either brilliant tactical moves OR telling lies.
Being neither an (R) or (D), and trusting neither, in 5 years of watching both sides, I can say that I have not watched a single Republican EVER speak the truth. It just does not happen anymore, so the spectacle of a Republican telling the truth is as rare as Harry Reid or any Democrat telling a lie.
Which is one reason for all the media attention, which is the only goal Reid had in the first place, and which succeeded beautifully. Mitt WILL NOT walk away from this quickly, quietly OR unscathed, when he could have proved it to be a lie, or more correctly, an unsubstantiated rumor, by releasing 10 years of tax returns the following day. It is not like the stupid shit doesn't have copies. Even IF Mitt released tax returns today, it is too late. The real take-away from this is not that Mitt is a rich tax-dodger, but that he is both arrogant AND stupid.
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