Why the Supreme Court Can Only Help Obama

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The IRS Scandal Is a Supreme Court Scandal

Intro: "If the Supreme Court overturns Obamacare, how does Obama respond? Just keep moving. The decision is scheduled to come down in June. The election will be more than four months away - an eternity in politics."

Tea Party members of Atlanta, Ga., protest Obamacare in front of the Supreme Court. (photo: Alex Wong/Getty Images)

Comments

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+66 # kyzipster 2012-03-29 07:09

Glad to see this perspective. I've thought for some time it would be a win/win for the Democrats if Republicans manage to make Obamacare ineffective for all of the reasons pointed out in the article. This problem is going nowhere and Republicans will own it. Of course the losers are the American voters. As Rich points out, we all pay for the uninsured one way or the other.

Republicans would have been smart to not put up too much resistance to this bill. If it were to remain intact they could use it politically for the next 50 years or more. They've been successfully using welfare, SS and Medicare to demonize the 'socialists' for decades while providing no viable alternatives to the problems in society that have been addressed. Hate paying for your own affordable health insurance? Blame the Democrats.

Defeat of Obamacare could make the Democrats stronger. All it will prove is that Medicare and Medicaid are constitutional and mandated private health insurance is unconstitutiona l. That may open serious debate over 'Medicare for all' which is the best solution to this crisis.

+27 # Texas Aggie 2012-03-29 08:34

There is more than a little reason to suspect that Medicaid will also go down if the regressives on the SC have their way. The thing is being argued on Commerce regulation grounds which also affects Medicaid.

And if the republicans had left Obamacare alone, after it actually went into effect, people would become as attached to it as they are to Medicare and SS. There is no way the republicans could have survived, so they had to kill it before people realized what it did for them or the republicans would be stuck with attacking something people strongly supported.

+15 # kyzipster 2012-03-29 09:33

You may be right but Republicans continuously attack SS & Medicare which a solid majority supports and it seems to help them for some reason. Even most conservatives I've talked to agree that the poor and disabled deserve some kind of assistance but they're convinced that the people receiving help are just lazy slackers committing fraud because the right-wing spin masters tell them so. There's no logic when it comes to the conservative voter.

Obamacare would have the same future I think, it would be impossible to take it away once people enjoy the benefits as you say but Republicans would still capitalize on it.

+8 # KittatinyHawk 2012-03-29 15:45

However we must remind everyone that for all the bitching about any Government Run Agency, Repuglicans and now their TP have had time to come up with improvements, changes ... in 60 years I know of they do absolutely nothing but listen to themselves....D ems are no better at listening or speaking. But Repubs have been in office too many times and did nothing.

+3 # mjc 2012-03-29 09:34

Have to agree with you on the Medicaid problem. That is the most onerous program for the states and for conservatives who believe that states should not be dictated to by the federal government.

+25 # readerz 2012-03-29 10:06

The trouble with Medicaid going down is that people already rely on it to feed and house the elderly in nursing homes. My sister and I priced the cost of skilled care in her house for our father as opposed to a nursing home, and it costs less in the nursing home. He needs help at every meal, and with toileting, bathing, etc. My father is out of his own funds. He spent the sale of his house, and his savings for his care and my mother's care. (She passed away last May). Our only hope is that the Veterans Administration might pick up the cost if Medicaid doesn't; they will probably not be able to treat new Veterans because of such a ruling. We have been nervous for months about this issue. My father is 94 years old. His father lived to age 98. The care he may need will cost more money than my sister and I have or could earn. And my husband has cancer. Should we ask the Supreme Court to treat take care of those they are so willing to call non-citizens? I am not happy at all, nor gloating, about how this decision will affect Democrats; I am much more afraid of what it will do to families whose children and elderly won't get care.

+9 # KittatinyHawk 2012-03-29 15:43

? People are already benefiting from Obama Cares. They will be able to make that point stronger.

-9 # Robt Eagle 2012-03-30 08:01

http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=mpg&load=6790&mpid=56

+35 # reiverpacific 2012-03-29 08:09

Only if it gets SINGLE-PAYER UNIVERSAL care back on the table and seriously, honestly factually considered and debated (if there IS a debate for "nay") will it be worth pursuing.
Nothing else can be called "progressive" or in the USA's case, "catching up with the rest of the world".
They can't live in a self-imposed vacuum forever!
And those reactionaries who keep driveling on RSN protesting at a small tax so all their fellow-resident s can have the same access to care as the so-called lawmakers in DC (a,k,a, "die quickly and soon") and by extension live decent, healthy lives free from fear of sickness and bankruptcy, are you happy paying for the death machine of a death culture called the military-indust rial con-plex (spelling deliberate) and CIA Black-Budget?
Of course you are! So you are not in a position to consider yourselves Christians or any kind of humanitarian, benign being.

+58 # pappajohn15 2012-03-29 08:24

If it dies, can we try Medicare For All again? Please?

John Griffin Miller
Candidate for Congress
aNewCongress.com

+9 # America 2012-03-29 08:26

Sorry guys Obama was wishy washy after taking power. Should have gone with the universal healtcare. EVERYONE one covered. When he had the majority in Congress he should have passed the bill everyone progressive wanted. This bill could not be challenged and would kick in despite the unprogressive GOP's.

He left himslef open with this 'penalty clause' and now paying the price. This is typical of everthing he does. He does not stand up, strong and tall for when he truly believes in and leaves the cracks for his enemies to exploit.

We should not be asking for a political backlash for the Supreme Court turning down Obamacare. On the 2nd anniversary of this bill there should be a mood of accomplishment and celebration. Not a mood of bewilderment and confusion.

That is nonsense. That is negative politics and will leave America in a healthcare wilderness even if we win the elections.

+13 # readerz 2012-03-29 10:16

Congress was in charge of the bill. It isn't wishy-washy, but has rules that are downright evil.

Senate needs 60 votes to confirm any Justices, Cabinet members, or bring any bill to the floor. So, the more conservative members must be appeased to get those 60 votes.

And who is the Senate? Not equal representation. I can understand small states "grandfathered in" to the country, but there are states with lower population than they had when they became states. If you add together the smallest population states to get one state the population size of an average state, the number of Senators (and worse, Electoral College) will be larger than New York State. In history, when something similar to this happened to the Parliament in England, they redrew the maps. It took a fight, but it happened. Well, I know that every state has its history, but maybe every century or so, the map needs to be redrawn, as long as it is not allowed to be thin lines like the gerrymandered Congressional districts we have in Ohio.

And who in the Senate provided the text for the health care bill? Senator Baucus, D-Montana; who gets all his campaign money from the health insurance industry. That appeased the conservatives a little bit, enough to get the bill to the floor with that 60 vote requirement.

If we had it to do over, it will be the same or worse, unless the Senate Rules change, AND the Senators-per-st ate change.

+9 # X Dane 2012-03-29 21:03

Rederz, I really appreciate you stating the facts so clearly. You show exactly how hard it is to get anything done in the senate, Obama would have had a hard time no matter what he did.

Single payer would have been preferable for sure, but I am convinced it would never have passed in the senate OR the house, so a beginning was made with the current ACA, It can, and I am sure it WILL be improved upon.

And in time we will probably get single payer, for it is simply MORALLY WRONG to make money of sick people.

+1 # JJS 2012-03-31 06:29

Nanci Pelosi had to use those 'evil congressional rules' to get the imperfect bill passed.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/03/nancy_pelosis_strategy_for_pas.html

+32 # Bill Clements 2012-03-29 08:50

I like the logic here; a win-win for Democrats. The real losers, however, as Rich points out, are the 30 million uninsured and the rest of us who will pick up the tab.

Republicans? I like "no-hopers" better.

+7 # KittatinyHawk 2012-03-29 15:48

Guess we put our taxes in escrow, let those in power dole out their money for their benefits, their pensions, and their salaries. Oops Wall Street will have no money of ours to manipulate, bye bye

-83 # Robt Eagle 2012-03-29 08:57

Hogwash!!! ObamaCare is, and always was, a disaster for everyone in America. It is just another means for government control beyond rational thought. Pelosi and Reid sold a bill of bad goods, and yes, once it was passed and it was truly scrutenized, it became clear it is a total disaster.

+49 # Bill Clements 2012-03-29 10:53

Well, if you hate Obamacare, you'll no doubt be thrilled to go back to the old system:

1) Millions of Americans will lose access to preventative services

2) As many as 129 million with pre-existing conditions denied coverage.

3) Young people kicked off their parent's insurance at 18 rather than 26.

4) Those falling into the Medicare donut hole will lose discounts on prescriptions

5) Insurance companies spending 40% of our premiums on things like exorbitant CEO salaries, marketing, etc.

Of course, if you're a dyed-in-the-woo l conservative/Re publican, none of this will matter because unless it affects you personally, what happens to the rest of your fellow Americans is simply not your responsibility or concern. In other words, selfishness is your modus operandi.

+6 # Virginia 2012-03-29 11:54

Bill - if Obama hadn't caved in with the penalty clause, if the single payer program had been included, if the poverty level would take in expenses and income rather than just income, it might have more tenable. But why are we arguing about it now? Why does all of this come at a time so close to the next election when the United States is seriously underwater in debt? Wag the Dog.

It's like the attack on women, abortion, contraception.. . the racial issue of a black child shot by a white security officer. Doesn't anybody realize what they are doing? Fanning the flames to keep your mind and attention off of the real issues - the economy, the debt, the Wall Street bank fraud.

We are about to enter into massive civil unrest. The gov't has geared up the local police and if you think one child getting shot is horrendous - just wait. They could turn their guns on all of us.

+6 # Bill Clements 2012-03-29 12:51

What "they" are doing? Who is the "they?"

The very definition of a conspiracy theory is:

1) a theory that explains an event as being the result of a plot by a covert group or organization; a belief that a particular unexplained event was caused by such a group.

2) the idea that many important political events or economic and social trends are the products of secret plots that are largely unknown to the general public.

You can believe all these events are being "orchestrated" by some covert power elite working in tandem with the media, etc. if that's your preference, but, frankly, I simply can't go there.

A further unfortunate consequence that comes out of believing in a conspiracy theory: a ramped up, alarmist state of mind often predicting dire doom and gloom in the immediate future. Are you a prognosticator with prescient powers? "Massive civil unrest" is now around the corner where "they" will turn their guns on us?

I might also take issue with your version of the "real issues." Certainly these are real and important, but they don't somehow supplant other real and important issues. Or relegate issues like health care to non-relevancy status.

+1 # Virginia 2012-03-30 23:10

You can take all the issue you like... But when you realize the GOVERNMENT knows the Wall Street banks have committed FRAUD in the TRILLION$ as proven by the Congressional committees, the investor Lawsuits, the fact that the REMICS are empty, the judiciary that has an above average IQ is waking up... Then you and I can discuss issues. Only a very naive or zero intelligence, brainwashed individual can't comprehend what is really going on...provided he wants to look. The economy is in a fatal downward spiral spin, the pension and retirement funds are GONE. Wake up - turn off Rush and tune in.

+3 # Bill Clements 2012-03-31 14:04

Are you deranged? I was simply taking issue with the "they" in your previous post. So, from that, you brand me not only as a Republican/cons ervative, but worse, one who's tuned into Rush> WTF?

+4 # KittatinyHawk 2012-03-29 15:50

However, You will be taxed heavier, and you will pay for the coverage of all those not covered and with spike in population growth, immigrants...yo u will get what you want Mr Eagle. I will be glad for you all.

-17 # Robt Eagle 2012-03-30 08:59

1) stop smoking, eating poorly, and get out and exercise...that is preventative care. 2) After 1 year on an insurance plan pre-existing conditions are covered 3) Coddle young American and they will never leave home...have the children expect to be out of the house by 18, or latest 22 when they finish college, and get out there and work! 4) pay the fairr price, and then no one gets screwed. 5) Profit is a terrible thing isn't it? Why would anyone be in business if it wasn't to make a profit. Oh, by the way, it is businesses that hire people to work. But why would you want to work if the government covers all your needs?

-76 # Robt Eagle 2012-03-29 09:02

How about everyone takes individual responsibility for their health CARE, like no smoking and doing exercise, and not eating tons of carbs that make individual have diabetes. How about the INDIVIDUAL takes responsibility for their actions and inactions and pays the price for it and not slough it off on some others who work their tails off to just get by. The needy in this country just keep soaking the hard working folks who are getting hosed by passing it through the government in the form of taxes to cover what should be an individual responsibilty. Charity will cover the rest of those who are less fortunate, but don't tax hard working Americans to pay for the alcoholics, drug addicts, criminals, etc. who do nothing but drain our economy. If you make poor decisions, like get fat and sick because you eat poorly, why should the rest of us suffer for you making bad decisions about your health?

+29 # kyzipster 2012-03-29 09:34

Hilarious, you apparently want a diet and exercise police to watch over you.

-13 # Robt Eagle 2012-03-30 09:01

kyzipster, who said anything about police to make you do the right thing? It is personal responsibility. No one should pay for the bad choices others make.

+44 # b_niles57 2012-03-29 10:25

Absurd. 1)The problem that you, and other (Libertarian?) people with this view is that you assume that people who are in need, be it health care, welfare, unemployment, (S.S. even?, Union members?)are somehow all LAZY. Where do you get that idea from? Oh yeah, the "leaders" of the Republican Party, and Rush etc... Where is the evidence of this? These people draining hard earned money but the fat cats shifting money around by typing on a computer are not? Do you really think they WORK harder, and are better people? I don't.
2) Charity? your answer is charity? To hilarious to even respond to.
3) How much do you think the "alcoholics, drug addicts, criminals, etc.: ACTUALLY drain from our economy? I think you will find very little in comparison to the tax shelters and loopholes of the very rich. Not to mention our defense budget...
4) The WHOLE POINT of Obamacare is to get the people you seem to loath (not just the alcoholics, drug addicts, criminals, etc., but honest hardworking people who have been unable to afford health care) on to Insurance so they don't burden our economy.

+14 # kyzipster 2012-03-29 11:54

This argument about bad habits falls flat on its face. It's much more expensive for society to take care of someone with perfect habits who lives to be in their late 90s, drawing SS and using Medicare benefits for over 30 years. A chain smoking alcoholic might fall over dead before drawing their first SS check. It's a calloused and absurd way of looking at society.

+9 # Billy Bob 2012-03-29 15:09

What makes you think he believes in Social Security or Medicare?

+6 # kyzipster 2012-03-29 18:54

..no doubt it's the source of all of his suffering, second only to welfare.

+47 # sl561 2012-03-29 10:36

Your ignorance and lack of empathy would be truly astounding if it were not so common. If you are lucky, you will not have to learn the hard way that fiscally and personally responsible people get hit with catastrophic illness or accidents ALL THE time. (I have one right wing friend who has been a health nut all his life and is currently dying of lung and liver cancer.) The drug addicts and alcoholics actually only make up a small portion of healthcare costs. And guess what...we ARE paying for them AND for everyone else who can't afford $1000 per month for health insurance or can't get insurance at all because of pre-existing conditions (including pregnancy) and must rely on the emergency room... to the tune of ONE HUNDRED BILLION PER YEAR. ObamaCare and the indivdiual mandate would drammatically reduce the costs for everyone.

+39 # Bill Clements 2012-03-29 11:03

I've been hearing this argument repeated ad nauseum from Republicans all my life.

There's a rather large presumption you make: "hard working Americans" apparently never get sick, fall on hard times, encounter life-threatenin g accidents, make bad decisions, succumb to alcoholism, drug addiction, or perpetrate crimes of any kind, eat poorly, and fail to exercise regularly. In other words, your hard working American is a figment of your imagination. No such animal exists.

+17 # Bill Clements 2012-03-29 11:22

Oh, and if by some inexplicable turn of circumstance any of these things DO happen to a "hard working American," they ALWAYS have sufficient large cash reserves to easily handle it.

-15 # Robt Eagle 2012-03-30 10:30

Bill, they have been paying for health insurance all along. When my wife was diagnosed with stage 4 breast cancer (no test showed anything wrong with her until a biopsy was done due to a enlarging mass), the insurance company paid for everything, less the contracted co-pays. They were fantastic. For five years until her death and numerous surgeries and procedures the insurance company covered it all. What is being said out there about the evil insurance companies is BS. They cover what they are supposed to and do a great job of it. You get what you pay for, pure and simple. Most folks on this site want something (lots of everything) for paying nothing. They think the government should do it for them, who is paying for that?

+9 # Bill Clements 2012-03-30 13:24

Again, you make this blanket statement about "hard working Americans" paying for health insurance all along. I don't even know how you would be able to make a judgment call about who is and isn't a "hard working American," as if they were a special, easily recognizable class of Americans.

As for the insurance companies, you either work for one, or your only source for news is Fox because just a simple Google will turn up lots of horror stories about people who were denied coverage for a pre-existing condition, or who refused to pay for an expensive procedure for no other reason than cost, or who imposed limits on what they would cover, etc. You honestly must live in a bubble because many "hard working Americans are seriously struggling to pay their astronomically- increasing premiums, or who have had to simply give up on being insured because they couldn't afford it. You're obviously an exception to the rule. Many people DO NOT get what they pay for.

+8 # Bill Clements 2012-03-30 15:02

The fact of the matter is that you and I are ALREADY paying for those who can't afford health insurance! Who do you think picks up the tab when they show up at the emergency room? We do. The system we have is broken, but you want to maintain the status quo.

You Republicans simply don't believe in social responsibility, in a democracy of caring for one another, where prosperity is shared by those who work and those who serve. I don't want to live in your selfish, uncaring world.

+4 # JJS 2012-03-31 06:39

Quoting Robt Eagle:

Bill, they have been paying for health insurance all along. .... What is being said out there about the evil insurance companies is BS. They cover what they are supposed to and do a great job of it. You get what you pay for, pure and simple. Most folks on this site want something (lots of everything) for paying nothing. They think the government should do it for them, who is paying for that?

Robert, It sounds as if you are all for the mandate then? You've paid for it all along anyway. What's the dif? Everyone should pay their fair share and the "great job" insurance companies will cover everyone.

I, however, think this could be more efficiently managed by government single payer rather than multiple insurance agency middle men.

+33 # readerz 2012-03-29 11:21

Who do more French people smoke and have other hazardous lifestyles, but so many fewer are sick? Because they have universal health care.

It isn't diet, exercise, and non-smoking that will lower our health costs, but preventative care.

+27 # MylesJ 2012-03-29 11:24

What if your family is a CANCER CLUSTER??
My maternal grandfather died at 53, his 4 kids had cancer and three of them died of it. My parents had 5 kids and 4 of us have had cancer, the first one at 33 years old. One of my uncles was Mr. Fit, heavily decorated WWII/Korea vet. Ran 25 miles a day. He was into fitness all of his life becuase of his father's health. He still got cancer. You can't be more responsible than he was.

+5 # X Dane 2012-03-29 22:25

Dear Myles, what a tragedy your family is living through, I am so sorry to read of your family's illness. That must be incredibly difficult. You have my sympathy, and hope that maybe you and your family can be helped.

+15 # Virginia 2012-03-29 12:00

Hard to do when you can be healthy and your water system sucks. Which, by itself, is a reason for universal healthcare. This nation's water quality is one step above third world, except for the fact that we disinfect with chlorination... But it's not enough, the bugs are stronger and more prolific than ever. The infrastructure is deteriorating, the sources are contaminated from pesticides leaching through to the aquifers... Just because water is clear and tastes ok doesn't mean it isn't deadly.

So, as far as healthcare goes - the government owes us a plan as good as their own because they have neglected the very source of life we depend on and need to stay healthy.

+11 # Billy Bob 2012-03-29 15:08

Obviously you don't have elderly parents, and if you do, they're EXTREMELY rich. The average nursing home costs thousands of dollars A MONTH, for people who can no longer work. Lucky they have Social Security (Title 19) and Medicare to help with that. Of course you'd take that all away and force them to live like the "drug addicts, and criminals".

+9 # bluntnose 2012-03-29 15:32

@ Robt E.: And what do you think those "alcoholics, drug addicts, criminals, etc." are going to do if we don't help them--just learn to take responsibility? Nope, they're gong to prey upon us, particularly the poor, working stiffs, their moms, spouses and kids. We aren't talking about being wishy washy do-gooders, we're talking about preserving freedom in the streets. If your response to that is just lock them up, you fall err to the notion that prison does anything but create a trained, antisocial army of people who no longer have any vested interest in participating peacefully in the society which has burned an A into their foreheads and spurned them. Get real, Robt, for your own good and mine.

+9 # KittatinyHawk 2012-03-29 15:58

I do, I pay for my health care, I work for it. We are responsible or we would be in jail. Needy are made needy by slobs of GOP/TP inbreeding.
We are paying for Criminals and they are elected to positions that the others could do no worse at.

Considering none of us know you...you remind me of the hypocritical Christians who would do nothing for anyone except steal babies, bomb clinics, bash people because of their choices, or kill innocents because of their clothes. Perhaps if you could actually do research you would see the percentage of creeps in this Country that are junkies or criminals is far smaller that the 1% creeps we are fighting. And no worse then the mall moms, the video kids, spouse abusing humans, pedophiles of the higher class. In fact most of those you disdain are really no more or less sinners than your idols of corruption.

Alcoholics...I was a bartender...GOP are the definition of Alcoholics, Drunk Drivers and Drug Addicts from both legal and illegal. Give it up, go back to your cell, try using the computer to learn things. Try learning compassion, I believe that is what God was all about. Oh that's right you're a Muslim

+12 # X Dane 2012-03-29 22:12

Interesting that you should mention the responsibility aspect, Rob. Our fine first lady has been trying to teach and inspire children to eat vegetables and fruits instead of fattening foods, cookies and candies.

But Alaska's former half term governor had nothing but scorn and snide remarks to offer about that. She felt that the first lady should just not interfere in what kids eat.

Right, Mrs. Palin is such a fine example to follow, she brought cookies to school kids, to show up Mrs. Obama.

We are fortunate to have a fist lady who is smart, and dedicated to helping children improve their lives and eating habits.

You are a typical republican. To you, people who are not well,.... or poor are labeled, drug addicts and alcoholics and criminals. You are all heart

did it ever occur to you, that fresh fruit, vegetables, fish and lean meats cost a hell of a lot more than starches, that fill you up....and also out, but are affordable.

To make it more difficult for the poor. There are no food markets in the inner city where a lot of the poorest live.

So please can all your selfrighteous blather.

+10 # dick 2012-03-29 09:15

First, I agree it can be a political win-win for Obama's re-election effort IF he does not concede the bully pulpit yet again. And, I don't think it's a long term loss for health care. It re-opens the door to some forms of public option, like granting Medicare access to anyone age-eligible for Soc Sec. Most importantly, it will break the sold his soul to the devil ties between Obama, shark insurers, & Big Pharma. You get in bed with rich gangsters & you only get screwed, minus the lingering love in the morning.

+8 # vicnada 2012-03-29 09:24

Romney: "Obamacare. My nightmare?" Endless.

Santorum: "Koch'd goose anyone?" Shameless.

Gingrich: "I'm history?" Priceless.

+7 # readerz 2012-03-29 10:18

No, I don't think the history books will have space to mention him. Unless the history books are all written in Texas. (And that is the problem with textbooks; ordered by conservatives in Texas, and then distributed to the rest of the country in the same form.)

+16 # b_niles57 2012-03-29 09:26

This seems to be the inevitable result of the all-or-nothing, no compromise atitude of Repubs. If they had worked WITH Obama, they would be in a much better place. They are going it alone on national and state levels, and are therefore exposed to the backlash when things go wrong, or (as in the case of health care) stay the same

+14 # readerz 2012-03-29 10:20

And I love every woman out there that is sending descriptions of reproductive issues to the Repubs on Facebook. The Repubs deserve the backlash, but I'm afraid that there will be a lot of lives lost, and I am wondering if the Statute of Limitations on murder apply to these goons.

+4 # mjc 2012-03-29 09:31

Have read many arguments that firmly believe that this Health Care bill WILL be approved by the Supreme Court. Yet, Jeffery Tobin has stated from the very first hour after the initial day, that it would be declared unconstitutiona l. He's still saying that. While many of us...even those on these threads...have support an expansion of Medicare, other liberals and pundits say it would be considered a tax and would never pass Congress. Obama doesn't apparently have a Plan B if these provisions fail. What a way to attempt to bring this nation into the 21st Century with other post-industrial nations who DO have some health care for their citizens.

+15 # readerz 2012-03-29 10:21

I just can't understand why any business wants the old model; it is business that suffers the most from the high medical premiums, and don't the businesses want to be able to make money?

+23 # dick 2012-03-29 10:35

This is NOT a 21st Century nation. The BIG ENOUGH to BLOCK PROGRESS reactionary, laissez fair, KKKulture is early 20th Century. We're refighting Monkey Trials. This is in part because many younger people think 21st Century means gaming & social (?) networking 24/7. There is also politics fatigue, malaise. Our TV media totally, totally sucks. But under 40s better wake up & smell the cyanide, or they're going to be really, really sorry. We dropped a real MESS on them.

-17 # Virginia 2012-03-29 10:59

What a sad "wag the dog" issue at a time when our economy is such unbelievable peril. The penalty clause, I hope, is ruled unconstitutiona l because the bill itself had no sense of consequence.

A family on an income of $3000 a month that is over qualified for gov't assisted health plans, has to spend $500 a month/$6000 a year for healthcare or be fined $2500 and still have no healthcare. By the time you pay the healthcare plan the family income is at the poverty level and cannot afford to either eat, pay utilities and/or make car payment. Bad bill... Very, very bad bill.

Folks, this government and I mean all of them - are delusional. They have no first hand concept of how the average American struggles through this economic force majuere because they still have a paycheck. They haven't had to reconstruct their lives, their homes, their jobs and careers. Frankly, I'm fed up. And these wag the dog issues when the economy is tanking like the Titanic under Trillion$ in debt cause by Wall Street criminals is absurd.

Call it outrage fatigue - I got it ....along with 74 million other Americans and another 74 million that just don't realize it yet that they have no pension or retirement funds.

+13 # readerz 2012-03-29 11:33

A family that is struggling will be helped and given Medicaid under the new plan. It will give families hope, and it might not bankrupt people in their 20s too.

The outrage fatigue is not charging those who block healthcare with murder. If there is an easy cure for an illness, but a person dies because they can't get that cure, wouldn't any sane person call it murder?

Or are only the "unborn" protected... and not even them, because mothers are not protected without insurance. And many women cannot even begin to have children without hormones to regulate ovarian cysts and other problems (in my family, a few women have endometriosis, which causes cysts, bleeding, and even fistulas... try 9 months of pregnancy with a perforated uterus). Yes, I have a lot of outrage, and so should everybody about the death caused by the outrageous lack of medical care this country has given its citizens.

+8 # bluntnose 2012-03-29 15:46

So, Virginia, is that family you speak of really any better off under the old plan of healthcare? Answer: a big Noo. So the machine was busted, a new machine came along, which admittedly had flaws that needed reworking. Did you work to amend and fix flaws? Nope, kill the new and better machine, let's go back to the broken one. You think you're fatigued now? Just wait, Virginia, just wait.

-10 # Robt Eagle 2012-03-30 10:38

The machine isn't broken...how can you have a FAMILY living on $3k a month? This isn't the 1970's when that was possible. A family might need that to fuel their vehicles on a monthly basis. So maybe the mom and dad should have assessed their fiscal responsibilitie s and not have brought children into the world (at their discretion, no police oversight suggested). Personal responsibility includes being able to afford what you can and not taking on burdens you can't afford. Why would they become the Federal or State governments' problems then? If they made poor decisions it is their's to suffer with. Why should it become everyone elses burden. Or as they like to do on this site, tax the rich to pay for the bad decisions of the poor, unhealthy, alcoholics, drug addicts, lame, infirmed, and anyone else who might be messed up. Come on, if one of my kids screws up I cover it, or if I become so old I can't take care of myself then they will do the right thing and cover me. We don't expect the government to take care of us, that's embarrassing and more importantly, why would you burden anyone else for your problems???

+1 # bluntnose 2012-03-30 17:56

Robt, I can't help you, brother. I read with sadness of your wife's plight, and the forthright response of your insurance company. Would that all in your shoes had had the same experience under the old system; but alas, we did not. I lost my wife to cancer 20 years ago, and my experience with my insurance company was, I'm afraid, decidedly different than your own. But I base my comments not on what my particular experience was, and not on what I perceive my personal and family responsibilitie s to each other to be (which, by the way, are identical to your own--we owe each other and society the duty to take care of ourselves so long as we are able.) But to take the policy position you espouse is to blind myself to the facts swirling around me every day. Plainly a whole lot of folks don't see their duty the way you and I see ours--they procreate when they can't really care for their offspring (and worse, they teach their kids that life owes them something beyond a swift kick in the pants), they think that if they don't pay for their own insurance that the Guvm'nt will do it, and they know that when it comes right down to it we won't let them die at the door of the local hospital (and no, Robt, you won't either, unless you are an entirely different person than I take you for). So what do we do when they won't follow your good example? If we are smart, and humane, we teach that which their folks left out: you must cover your own insurance policy. Pray they don't repeal.

-5 # Robt Eagle 2012-03-31 10:35

blunt, the ObamaCare has no teeth. If you don't buy in, or fail to pay the tax penalty for opting out, there is no jail time and no means to collect. As soon as the deadbeats in our society, all 47% and growing, find that out, there won't be anyone paying and the whole system will fail. This is just a hoax to get votes and control by the left and Dems. When Holder does nothing to uphold the laws of the land, except those he cherry picks for more votes (read "Injustice" by J. Christian Adams) we are doomed to a country of deadbeats and then an underground society refusing to pay taxes. It will collapse, especially because Obama and his minions are using the Fed to cover up their illegal practices and Holder's DoJ does nothing. It is Chicago politics on a Federal grand scale, that is all. The debt crisis is about to implode our economy and Obama will blame on the Republicans' inability to yield to the left. OK, well something is going to give soon and it will be class warfare in the streets if Obama has his way. Just look at how the New Black Panthers put a bounty on Zimmerman and Holder does nothing. Holder didn't go after them for voter intimidation, so why would he go after them for vigilantyism? Scary, is it becoming a race war too, or just class warfare? Obama is a great leader, eh?

+1 # mebemo 2012-04-01 16:31

Robert, you poor sad grouch, why don't you read the Sermon on the Mount some time? Interesting that Jesus (and Buddha, as well) never denounced anybody as "deadbeats." Almost everything you write contains an attack on some class of people you despise, and never a word about the common humanity we all share. It grows tiresome. Lighten up. Love heals.

+2 # Virginia 2012-03-31 01:33

You are sorely uninformed. Sorry, I don't know where your narrow minded viewpoint comes from but families struggling right now live on less than $3k a month. Nobody is talking about gov't assistance. But let's not fine people who cannot afford $500 a month in healthcare because some bureaucratic desk jockey pulls a number out of his butt without thinking about the consequences.

You are apparently independently wealthy for now. But don't depend on your kids to be able to afford to take care of you when your 401k and Wall Street stock market pension and savings dries up...most people are living on fumes and don't even know it yet.

0 # Virginia 2012-03-31 01:46

The fine is the problem. Hawaii has had mandated healthcare for employees long before this Obama plan... Problem is we have very little healthcare competition so to add 2 members to a plan the employee pays another $350 a month for his family. I don't know where Robt lives but here you are lucky to have $3k a month right now...so losing any of that for healthcare is a hardship. The gov't doesn't take into account your expenses to qualify you for assistance. This is the big problem - why should the family be fined and still get no insurance?

+12 # wfalco 2012-03-29 12:04

It is absurdly amazing how the right wingers hate a moderate attempt to reign in healthcare costs by expanding coverage. But what is apparent is that these wingers don't pay attention to the details of the policy. How could any conservative be opposed to an expansion of privatization? And then have the gaul to demonize the Obama plan as big government?
It is a pure, unadulterated example of their hate and how all they actually care about is the failure of this administration.

+6 # reiverpacific 2012-03-29 15:09

What this country call "care" goes back to when Homo Sapiens lived in packs like wild beasts and had a life expectancy of 20-25. Neanderthals less.
If someone in the tribe was sickly, weak or wasn't able to carry their weight of the work load, and considered a burden, they were soon cast out to died quickly.
Does that sound familiar to anybody?
It sounds like those seeking, and many holding the reins of power (and the reactionaries who post here), would like to see a return to this primitive state; compassion is not in the equation.
Makes you wonder if a mass of the voting population who will not act "responsibly" for the good of their fellows have evolved from the primitive state at all, especially those tea-bastards in Texas who cheered "Yes" when Wolf Blitzer asked Ron Paul if he would let a guy who went into a coma just die.
Funding the military and CIA Death-apparatus is just fine, funding healthcare -sorry, we gotta go out and kill some more people, somewhere!
The Native peoples of this country had or made a place in the tribe for everybody, no matter how halt or "strange" (as Crazy Horse was thought to be) and accepted them as part of the circle of life given to us by the Creator and passed down from seven generations of predecessors.
-And some of us call ourselves "Civilized"!

+7 # KittatinyHawk 2012-03-29 16:17

I am sorry to hear this. People like Eagle have no clue, are bitter people.
Most of us are only starting to find out what our DNA structure is about

I just learned 2 years ago I have one kidney. I have lived 63 years not all sainted with this condition. I have beaten disease, I have been operated on 12 times in past 10 years from eye problems and muscle problems. I have more that I live with. Never do I wish any even on white trash. I took care of seniors, people with addictions, children. I cannot imagine the insensitivity that GOP are born with, I believe they are cloned, as they have no likeness to the Creator at all.

Funny as some junkies are rich kids who may have been born with addiction from parents, their bad diets/habits

Poor people do have bad diets, but that is improving. Middle Class are learning to look at better foods. Rich have the worst diets of all, drinking martinis from dawn to midnite is a diet? Rich foods to keep up with jones' is more their style. Golf, yep as long as they have a cart and entourage to do everything for them.
Poor and middle class walked to work, bicycled. Innovative more than rich that could not pass driving tests so had chauffers, lost their licenses due to too many DUI.

There is research on all this. They only thing Rich affords doctors to make them look better than they are.lawyers and the Madoffs of the world.

I like being Middle Class.

+7 # sheila Cee 2012-03-29 16:31

As I understand it, one of the points the GOP is opposed to is the mandate that all people have health insurance. Too much government control they say.

The government also mandates that all drivers have auto insurance. I can't see much difference. Yes, They both require that people take responsibility. The only difference I see is that auto insurance may cover something we could possibly avoid. But it seems it's ok to mandate auto insurance but not insurance for our health which we often have little control over. Who's up for cancer today?

+13 # szq5777 2012-03-29 16:54

I always laugh when republicans think of themselves as holy "Christians". What a joke. Jesus healed the sick and raised the dead. How much money did He ask for?What was His fee schedual? Did He accept insurance? Mastercard? Visa?
The vicious hypocracy of these tea-party, republican idiots makes me sick!

+4 # TrueAmericanPatriot 2012-03-30 11:30

Quoting szq5777:

I always laugh when republicans think of themselves as holy "Christians". What a joke. Jesus healed the sick and raised the dead. How much money did He ask for?What was His fee schedual? Did He accept insurance? Mastercard? Visa?
The vicious hypocracy of these tea-party, republican idiots makes me sick!

SQZ5777, you need only to look up John 8:44 in the Bible to see what the REAL JESUS would say the TP & GOP. It reads as follows: "You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you shall do. He was a murdering from the beginning and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own; for he is a liar and the father of it." I DOUBT their willingness to embrace the TRUE JESUS. VOTE 2012!!! GIVE THE SENIORS RIDES TO THE POLLS OR BRING THEM ABSENTEE BALLOTS!! VOTE EARLY AND VOTE BY ABSENTEE BALLOTS!!! DEFEAT ALL BLUE DOGS AND RED ELEPHANTS!!!!

+7 # Rick Levy 2012-03-29 18:20

Yet I wonder if Americans really do understand the benefits of Obama's health care plan, meager though they are when compared with the civilized countries of the world.

+5 # JJS 2012-03-31 06:57

I think some do understand the benefits, Rick Levy. The pols that ask about specific parts of the law are generally approved of. Unfortunately, there are the many who have been trained to gag when they hear the word "mandate". There is also the hatred stirred up by linking healthcare with Obama. We all kinda know why they don't like Obamacare. After all, Obama's son would look like Trayvon Martin.

+2 # Windy126 2012-03-31 10:14

Robt Eagle says his Health Insurance paid all of his wife's medical bill. Did he pay for that insurance out of his own pocket or was it a benefit from where he worked? About food, so much the food today is so adulterated it has no nutritional value. Buy some of Conagra's frozen meals and you get a box of chemicals. They are cheap and they fill the hole but who knows what they do to you. Where in our education do we get taught how to shop for food? A Home-Ec class? I took a college course and it wasn't offered to me. I learned to cook from my mother and grandmother who had been raised on a farm. What did they know about additives? They ate good food they raised. We all can't raise our food any more. We have GMO food now. Since they have put GMO in corn I cannot eat corn nor any forms of corn, ie: corn syrup in other foods. I get terrible joint pain from it. Stay away I'm fine, eat even a little I hurt. Not just aches but pain that OTC pain relievers will not kill. I can't sleep for the pain.
I grow as much of my food as I can but since breaking my back I am limited as to what I can do. Our insurance paid to reinforce it but I still left with permanent nerve damage in one leg. I hobble most of the time because I refuse to get a"hover around" or such. I keep moving. My health is good enough that I only go see my MD once a year.
I resent people who judge all people by themselves. We are not all alike. It would be a boring world if we were all alike.

+2 # kbarrand 2012-04-01 10:12

It is becoming more and more clear to me that the only answer to all these issues is a universal, single payer approach. This would also solve the contraception issue as well because no one would be able to complain that he/she/it has to pay for something to which they are morally opposed. This whole health bill was designed to be a compromise and I don't think any side is very happy about it.

0 # annashane 2012-04-01 11:07

these are my reasons for betting that Roberts was the fifth vote to uphold the affordable care act, he can see fallout. Also, without the Obama hate this is a bill the Republicans would love - makes deadbeats pay for their own care (they're terms) and is pro-business and pro-insurance industry. If it's knocked down, the only viable option will be public health care, medicare for all who want it, and that works so well for me that I can't imagine Roberts not seeing it and voting to uphold the law. Wait until June, but they've already decided.

+2 # NormRichardson 2012-04-01 13:37

I, PERIODICALLY wonder if Obama is doing the right thing, I worry, then as time goes by I realize that Obama is smarter then the rest of us. I am very happy that he is our President and that is a Democrat.

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