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Noam Chomsky begins: "Of all the 'threats' to world order, the most consistent is democracy, unless it is under imperial control, and more generally, the assertion of independence. These fears have guided imperial power throughout history."

An American boy with the Chinese flag painted on his face, 06/15/09. (photo: Istock)
An American boy with the Chinese flag painted on his face, 06/15/09. (photo: Istock)

 

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+3 # Johann Hollar 2010-10-29 21:58
Go China, your our only hope to save us from further economic disaster.
 
 
+5 # Activista 2010-10-29 22:00
"Washington is reacting with a touch of desperation" - more like loosing control - biting like scared dog.
Paradox is that China's credit - over one $ trillion - enable US its USraeli wars.
Reagan with brother Sadam attacked Iran (one million dead) in 1980. Russia is now playing Iran (or we are playing Russia) - pipeline Russia to Chima is built - War will double or more the price of oil - do not see there any win for USA. Are we (or Clinton) so stupid?
 
 
+4 # Rex 2010-10-29 22:58
big picture
 
 
+12 # Daniel Fletcher 2010-10-29 23:08
How about that! A communist country (politically) practicing a capitalistic economy is going to soundly whip our butts in due course! What an irony! Chine has a militar a fraction of the size of ours, devotes far, far less of its' economy into the military, owns so many U.S. Treasury notes that all they have to do is cash all of them in at once to destroy our banking system, and we wag our finger at them and scold them for not paying attention. Hmmm.... Seems to me our come uppance is imminent and it will be so richly deserved.
And good for South Amrica. Let China help in developing their resouces and being their primary market in due course. Maybe we will wise up and decide o become a bilingual nation requiring that Chinese be learned as the language of business. That is where we are heading.
 
 
+4 # foxtrottango 2010-10-30 11:02
Of what I have seen and heard, Chinese is becoming the second language in Latin America. It certainly enjoy more cooperation, interactions both in culture, economy and financial. Yep, the sun has set for the USA. It forfeited it place of honor in the Western Hemisphere's (the Americas) conference tables. Decades of supporting right wing fascists government made it all possible.

China, on the other hand, is greeted with honor because China has a history of not picking on small unarmed nations.
 
 
+6 # Ralph Averill 2010-10-31 08:26
"China has a history of not picking on small unarmed nations."
You might want to check with the Dali Lhama and the citizens of Tibet on that one.

That said, your point is well taken. The Chinese know it is much more effective to purchase support and cooperation than to coerce it through military threats and intimidation.
 
 
+6 # geraldom 2010-10-31 09:03
Daniel, I wish people would stop calling China a communist state, at least based on the definition by Karl Marx. I would also wish that people would stop looking at the old Soviet Union as a communist state, again, as defined by Karl Marx.

The old Soviet Union was a military dictatorship as China has been and still is to some degree today. It's not a people's republic. A true communist state can never exist in theory. It against human nature as is proven by what has been happening here in our own country for many decades, the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer and the middle class slowly disappearing.

Human beings, by nature, cannot and will not exist as equals among all other human beings which is required for a communist state to exist, as has existed in what we know as communes.

The natural desire for individuals to gain power and money over and above everyone else for the purpose of survival will trump the desire to establish a community of equals working together for the common good, which is why this country, the United States, is slowly but surely turning into a fascist state, and I can't see it reversing.
 
 
+3 # Daniel Fletcher 2010-10-31 11:29
I bow to your inestimable insight on this one. Indeed, it is intellectual laziness to argue the stereotypes on conveniently assigned labels so often erroneously applied to far more complicated reality.

I guess I am amused that the assigned labels and the meanings we give them continue to confound the reality of things, failing to explain the unfolding outcomes of reality which continue to cast into doubt the validity of conventional wisdom.
 
 
+21 # Ralph Averill 2010-10-30 02:18
The American Century was 1865 to 1965. The zenith was VE Day, 1945. The Chinese century is just beginning. Karl Marx was right; the only real power is economic. The Soviet Union disintegrated because it invested in its military, at the expense of investments that pay real dividends to society. The US has gone down the same road since 1965. Will we also disintegrate? The current political situation indicates that the process may have already begun.
 
 
+8 # DaveW. 2010-10-30 09:57
Ralph, Excellent analysis! Marx was right. Everything comes down to a class struggle. What he couldn't foresee was the manipulations of huge segments of populations through corporate bidding mass media. That "zenith" you speak of is what the old-timers in our country long to got back to and what is "promised" them by Conservative hucksters masquerading as "concerned politicians." Pax Romana lasted about 200 years. Pax Americana about half that long. Things will happen even faster in the future. Our day in the sun is over and only shadows of varying intensities will remain.
 
 
+5 # Mag Seaman 2010-10-30 14:09
Yes. If you have not read the following, consider it:
Johann Galtung; The Fall of the US Empire--And Then What?
 
 
+1 # otto117 2010-10-30 05:16
1. So...China is just an upstart with no imperial actions, plans or designs?

2. South America "is also beginning to address the internal scandal of a continent that is endowed with rich resources but dominated by tiny islands of wealthy elites in a sea of misery."

By expressing this in the passive, I suppose it absolves you of responsibility actually to prove it. For those of us who live in South America, this proposition seems pretty laughable.
 
 
+10 # Milt Lauenstein 2010-10-30 05:39
Mr. Chomsky, like government leaders, focuses on the subject of control. Except to those leaders playing their power games at the expense of the rest of us, control hardly matters. The net impact of American imperialism on the American public and on the rest of the world has been negative. The people of Western Europe are much better off since the efforts of their governments to control world affairs have diminished.
 
 
+13 # saltmarch 2010-10-30 05:46
The Chinese will get to write the history of these times, and the rise and collapse the American empire- its greed, violence and collective stupidity- will be a minor footnote in its 5000 year saga.
 
 
+5 # Foxtrottango 2010-10-30 06:07
"China growing independence and the New World Order - "Chinese leaders are not unlikely to be impressed by such US warning, the language of an imperial power desperately trying to cling to authority it no longer has" --Noam Chomsky.

To begin with, China has always the past century has been "independent" of whatever the West calls the "New World Order."

It has never been intimidate by the US, much less from it's European lackies.
The Chinese has and will confront the
West in the battle field whenever they chose to and will the only one coming out of a nuclear war. The West has a failed ideology and it's call "Capitalism" of which the Western Power's working class considers now as the enemy. The filthy rich and the repressive laws they have created in human rights and are living proof of this and very focal. The West's greedy corporate and their servants, the US Congress and the five Right wing Supreme Court Justice, exploiters of the working classes in the USA and in the West are living on borrowed time. The latest incident in France is only a taste of things to come.
 
 
+1 # John Henry 2010-10-30 07:35
"Of all the “threats” to world order, the most consistent is democracy, unless it is under imperial control, and more generally, the assertion of independence. These fears have guided imperial power throughout history."

The USA was dedicated at its birth to the fight against imperial domination. Its constitution is designed to insure the resistance to all-powerful government continues. If it is restored, the world will have a new opportunity to resist world domination by any power. China is a contender and so is a world-wide Islamic state.

"Arab public opinion is so enraged by Western policies that a majority even favor Iran’s development of nuclear weapons." Arabs do not support Persians. They see Iran as a champion in a world-wide jihad. Iranian victory might well eliminate Western secular enemies. That would leave an asia increasingly dependent on diminishing oil reserves. Since Islam has no need of Western Technology except in the form of weapons, Islam is thereby given the long term edge. By the way Saudi oil is now being produced by pumping CO2 and H2O into the fields. That happens near the end of reserves.
 
 
+7 # fredboy 2010-10-30 07:57
The Chinese also rely on the wisdom of many thousand years, assessing, considering, studying, and reviewing with open minds and the willingness to learn and adapt.
The US bickers, insists, denies, and plunders.
And tries to bully.
Any bets how this one turns out?
 
 
+4 # John Henry 2010-10-30 11:29
To disabuse yourself of this assessment of Chinese history, study Chinese history. China's history is far from peaceful and its periods free from oppression are few. If you got the notion that China has been ruled wisely from pulic schools, demand they not inflict the present crop with such false notions.
 
 
+4 # DaveW. 2010-10-30 14:29
John Henry, There was no need to bash public schools to make your point, which, by the way, I agree with. China, as currently ruled, is still an oppressive state. This is still a nation that routinely threatens Taiwan, executes or imprisons "protesters" for sedition and has not adequately apologized for the massacre in Tiananmen square. I have massive problems with right-wing America and the flirtations with Fascism we are currently witnessing. But China, despite some improvements in human rights, still is not a great example to hold up for Americans to want to emulate. Fredboy perhaps has not heard Nobel Prize winners in China are imprisoned and their wives are kept under house arrest. Well, at least the current duo are under such conditions. I still don't see that happening here. Yet.
 
 
+2 # Foxtrottango 2010-10-30 17:43
"I still don't see that happening here" -DaveW.

I haven't heard of the US apologizing for the Kent State massacre either.

And it still has many innocent people of
Iraqi origen, many of whom were tortured and even murdered, disappeared, still locked up, or has shipped them out to other repressive nations trying to wash it's hand of the brutality.

Typical American, isn't it? Poking in other people's closet and not washing it's own dirty linen.

China is not perfect. When Hillary Clinton visited China some time ago, she mentioned to the Chinese prime Minister of human rights abuse in China. The prime minister in no uncertian terms responded to Hillary of the Human rights abuses in the US by the police especially when it comes to minorities which are constantly profiled by the police.

They still haven't heard of the SB1070 fascist law of Arizona in which the United Nations has now gone on record as a human right abuse US state. In addition, the UN has also request the US government to bring to trial it's War Criminals in the GW Bush Administration.

..but you don't see that happening, do you DaveW?
 
 
+3 # DaveW. 2010-10-31 10:41
Foxtrottango,On the contrary Fox I see all these happening and many more and have consistently weighed in with "harsh views" to put it mildly about the abuses perpetuated by this country in its ascendancy to empire. I was 14 when Kent State atrocity occurred. It still sickens me to see the photos and newspaper accounts.I have written many, many Reader Supported News posts condemning U.S. involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan,as well as the horrific treatment of Native American's, Manifest Destiny rhetoric, injustices concerning Mexican-America n war, Spanish-America n war,WW1 and Sedition Acts of 1917,Labor rights,women's reproductive rights, corporate duplicity and abuses and more. I've routinely criticized virtually every Republican whose name has shown up on these posts and been an absolutely staunch supporter of the Liberal/Progres sive agenda all my adult life.I'm 54 now.I also wrote numerous posts ridiculing SB1070 and absolutely agree it is Fascist in nature and furthermore that entire country is headed in that direction.Howar d Zinn is a hero of mine along with anyone else who stands for truth vs. power.I merely was pointing out China is not good role model.Wrong whipping boy!
 
 
+3 # John Henry 2010-10-31 12:26
DaveW,
About public schools: Take a look at the information on China given in public school issued geography, history, and reading books concerning China. It is consistemtly a soft-sell. Present Dept of Ed influenced social studies is carried across the curriculum and ignores the violence and suppression that marked a number of cultures. It follows the de-emphasis on national identity required by the World Core Curriculum promoted by UNESCO and adapted here under George Bush, Bill Clinton, GW Bush and B. Obama. see:http://www.worldcorecurriculum.org/

If you are curious enough, look at Robert Muller and the origins to this curriculum in the channeled works of Alice Bailey.
 
 
+2 # DaveW. 2010-10-31 20:06
John H., I'm 54 and recently graduated Community College with Humanities, Social Sciences and Liberal Arts degrees. Am now working on Bachelor's with History as major, Sociology as minor. My experience at community college level was not a soft sell on China. However, I don't honestly know what younger kids are being told, or not told, in lower grades of public schools in California where I live. So I will look at your suggestions. I would have to make the comment though that I don't believe American school kids are being given all the information they need to make "educated" judgments about the true nature of American empire. This country is guilty of many deadly indiscretions as are all empires throughout history. Texas textbook makers would like to "exclude" negative aspects of our history in lieu of a more "favorable" presentation. History should not be "spun" to fit particular ideologies. Whether about China or the United States. Thanks for the suggestions.
 
 
+1 # Daniel Fletcher 2010-10-30 15:50
Quoting John Henry:
To disabuse yourself of this assessment of Chinese history, study Chinese history. China's history is far from peaceful and its periods free from oppression are few. If you got the notion that China has been ruled wisely from pulic schools, demand they not inflict the present crop with such false notions.

What a novelty! I unambiguously agree John! It is increasingly important to understand China given its' rise of late and its' expected ascendancy. It really is important to understand that China has many unresolved issues and is still evolving with a long way to go. Few Amercans would care to trade places, and those like my sis who do, do so with caution and considerable preparatopm...a long with an escape plan if needed. Contemprary China and it's growing economy leaves China as a fledgling power whose current place in the world is extremely new to them It remains to be seen where they will be going in the near future.
 
 
+5 # DurangoKid 2010-10-30 11:12
In years past the global supply of oil has been constrained by politics and finance. Enter a third constraint: geology. On the downside of Hubbert's Peak, someone's gain in oil supply will be someone else's loss. My guess is the EROEI on a check book will be greater than an aircraft carrier group or occupying army. Like other institutions, empires have a certain inertia. They're likely to crash before negotiating a curve. We live in interesting times.
 
 
+2 # Paul Pliester 2010-10-30 12:57
All the nations mentioned above as so opposed to US policy are dictatorships. I cannot see why people are so supportive. Yes the US does need a large dose of reality but that is as much down here with the people as up there with the DC crowd. Our relative position is weaker than it has been in a long time but the leaders in Beijing and Tehran fear for their lives as all dictatorships end in the death of the dictator while Obama and other western democrats need fear only early retirement. Push China and you will find a weak country with massive internal problems and contradictions. As Sun Tsu said in The Art of War (a book followed all over Asia), When you are strong act weak but when you are weak, act strong. The strident manner of all the worlds dictators reveals their fundamental weakness.
 
 
+4 # JBinJapan 2010-10-30 21:36
Paul, how weak must the US be? What country in the world is "acting" stronger?

Further, if Obama's main fear is early retirement that does not make the US a democracy or less dictatorial than the countries mentioned. There's an easy case to be made that the US is in fact a corporate-state dictatorship. What Chomsky has referred to as a "procedural Democracy" - yet a dictatorship due to the fact that democratic choices have been severely restricted to those that benefit the hidden corporate masters.

Such a dictatorship will enact policies that are damaging not only to it's own citizens but perhaps more importantly to the citizens of the world all to satisfy corporate greed.

Which leads to my last point, the US is clearly dictatorial in one regard; that is, their policy toward the rest of the world. In that role the US operates with contempt for both democracy and the rule of law. Many "supporters" of China are simply ready for the end to this unjust US period of global corporate dictatorship
 
 
+4 # Anarchist 23 2010-10-30 15:48
Alas China, in moving toward a mopre open Capitalist economy, is hardly breaking new ground, yet alone living up to its ancient 'communist/work ers' promise-the brutality of $0.20 cents an hour 12 + hour day sweatshops does not promise much. If China really wants to break new ground, it should look into other ways of organizing an economy aside from exploitative use of labor! 'Le plus change....'
 
 
+5 # AML 2010-10-30 15:51
In the grand scheme of things, there is one irrefutable fact.(irreputab le?) US does have the creativity to lead in new technologies, but we also will pay the price for our meddling in the dynamics of countries all over the world to promote our well-being, as opposed to everyone's.
 
 
+2 # TedG 2010-10-30 20:29
I think it’s possible to find some middle ground between Noam Chomsky and poster John Henry.
We should recognize that imperialism isn’t all bad. It comes out of the dynamism of a people. For example, the Napoleonic Empire was an outgrowth of the French Revolution and the dynamic forces it unleashed. It brought more enlightened ideas to some parts of Europe. I think a similar thing could be said of Roman, British, and American imperialism. As one other poster pointed out, we did help to rebuild Europe and Japan after World War II and helped people in places like Berlin keep their freedom.

But it’s still true that imperialism means pushing people around, and eventually, imperial powers have to face their hubris. People want to make their own choices, and we should have learned that lesson in Vietnam. Even the Monroe Doctrine, which John seems to think is a great example of American “anti-imperiali sm,” has meant pushing others around.

We need to quit throwing our weight around, for own our good as well as that of others. From what I've seen so far, Chinese imperialism is likely to be even less benign than ours. It's fair to call China a fascist state.
 
 
+2 # Daniel Fletcher 2010-10-30 22:50
Sorry Tedg..hate to quibble but dont you mean "totalitarian state" as opposed to "fascist state" in reference to China? I doubt that China resembles a fascist state in any manner.
Other points well taken.
 
 
+4 # mediasavy 2010-10-31 14:21
China is the perfect combination of Communist authoritarianis m and capitalist efficiency. Unlike most democracies, they don't have to answer to their citizens.

Just as American-style capitalism proved more flexible and economically efficient than British capitalism it succeeded, Chinese capitalism is more economically and politically efficient than American capitalism.

I am not endorsing any of these capitalist forms - indeed, I regard Chinese 'communism' an abomination - I am simply noting that combining the violent power of the state to compel obedience, combined with a profit-driven economic order is a perfection of capitalism in all its devastating purposes.

We wanted a capitalist China and in all the ways that matter to us, we got it. We have nobody to blame but ourselves.

Our political leaders can only look to China with jealousy. And they do. Let us hope they never gain that much power.
 
 
+2 # DaveW. 2010-11-01 06:52
mediasavy, We wanted Japan to be the dominant country in the far east once upon a time. That worked out pretty well. Suggest you read "The Imperial Cruise" by James Bradford. We've created monsters in our own image before. We're doing it again with China. Want to guess what will happen next?
 
 
+3 # thomas 2010-10-31 18:26
harold r. mencher, you assert that human beings, BY NATURE, cannot and will not exist as equals among other human beings, and the NATURAL DISIRE for individuals to gain power and money over and above others for the purpose of survival will trump the disire to establish a community of equals working together for the common good. have you never considered that, by and large, what you assert is only true in the context of humans only knowing one way to go about living life? having only one point of view about how to exist with other humans? that for centuries only one model of co-existence has dominated "modern times"? i assert that only because a few have managed to conrner the market on wealth and power during these times that the vast majority of the planet's population know only one mindset, know only one motivattion, and that is to be competitive wiht others. i assert that being competitive is not necessarily nature. if shown and taught differently humanity could just as easily have a dominant mindset of being cooperative and creative. and there are those who say our nature is really cooperative and creative. i'm not naive though our reality is one of competition.
 
 
+4 # geraldom 2010-11-01 07:50
thomas, I wish that the world could be different, but it isn't. If we could all live forever, be immortal, if death did not exist, I would agree with you. But humans are what they are.

The U.S. claims to be a Christian nation. I myself am Jewish, but not in a religious way. If this were truly a Christian nation that lived by the tenets of Jesus Christ, I think that it would be a great place to live, but it isn't. What bothers me to no end is that the vast majority of the people who are against a single-payer health care system in this country, a not for profit system, one that would give quality and affordable health care to all Americans and save so many lives in the bargain, call themselves Christian.

These very same people are willing to allow people to die because they cannot afford good and decent health care. They cannot afford to visit a doctor or a hospital.

Human nature is much closer to the animal kingdom than not, survival of the fittest. If you can afford to have good health care, so be it, it's great. If not, it's just too bad. Hypocrisy in the U.S. rules the roost. I deal with reality, not hope.
 
 
+2 # thomas 2010-11-01 17:43
very good and valid points harold. as i stated at the end, i am not naive. i know the reality we live in is a competitive one. i only assert it is a "created" competive reality. again, your points are valid and duly noted.
 

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