RSN August 14 Fundraising
FB Share
Email This Page
add comment
read more of todays top articles

Radley Balko writes: "Yes, bin Laden the man is dead. But he achieved all he set out to achieve, and a hell of a lot more. He forever changed who we are as a country, and for the worse. Mostly because we let him. That isn't something a special ops team can fix."

Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan during the war with Russia in 1989. (photo: Sipa Press/Rex Features)
Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan during the war with Russia in 1989. (photo: Sipa Press/Rex Features)

go to original article

 

Comments   

We are concerned about a recent drift towards vitriol in the RSN Reader comments section. There is a fine line between moderation and censorship. No one likes a harsh or confrontational forum atmosphere. At the same time everyone wants to be able to express themselves freely. We'll start by encouraging good judgment. If that doesn't work we'll have to ramp up the moderation.

General guidelines: Avoid personal attacks on other forum members; Avoid remarks that are ethnically derogatory; Do not advocate violence, or any illegal activity.

Remember that making the world better begins with responsible action.

- The RSN Team

 
+41 # Activista 2011-05-03 21:55
"The cost for both wars is also now well over $1 trillion" more like $3 trillion (Stiglitz) -
Sep 5, 2010 ... The true cost of the Iraq war: $3 trillion and beyond .... Joseph E. Stiglitz, a professor at Columbia University,...
USA is BANKRUPTED - like Soviet Union after war in Afghanistan that could not afford.
Fighting on Chinese credit card -- how stupid ...
 
 
+24 # Ralph Averill 2011-05-04 02:59
How true. And how ironic that it was the US that armed the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan.
 
 
+20 # George D 2011-05-04 09:31
"USA is BANKRUPTED"...
Maybe this is true. I honestly don't know. Maybe someone can help me understand how "value" is determined on a national level and a world level.

If the world economy declared all currency invalid, and assigned "value" only to natural resources and the goods and services provided by them, in the grand scheme of things, would America still be "bankrupt"?

Correct me if I'm wrong but, on our side of the ledger, wouldn't we have:
1. Abundant fertile land for crops
2. Abundant intellectual property for defense, farming, etc.
3. An abundant able and willing work force.
4. Abundant water to drink and ability to use it.

I don't know; I see America as a "rich" land playing in a phony game of economic values right now.

We "owe" China "money" but how do they collect? What do they collect? Do they invade us? For what?

Dick Cheney probably told the only truth he ever uttered to the American people when he said "Running a deficit doesn't matter; Reagan proved that". Actually Reagan, and many others proved it. So why is it the central theme/distracti on for American politics now?

Teabaggers; You are all fools. And unless we can change this dialog SOON, all of America will be the fools that the money-changers are making us out to be.
 
 
+56 # billy bob 2011-05-03 22:39
My favorite irony about the whole thing is that after the attacks, bush was touted as a badass by the msm, and made comments about bin laden "hating us for our freedoms". Then, what does he and his accomplices do, but start taking them away. It's as if they said, "bin laden hates everything America stands for, so we'll change what we stand for to make sure he has nothing to complain about".

If bin laden wanted us to lose our freedoms, I imagine he could have accomplished the same thing with a strong lobby and a few billion dollars invested after the "Citizens United" case.
 
 
+14 # Activista 2011-05-03 23:29
Yes - it is absurd and stupid - but masses are eating it. Listen to Obama speech re - we killed Bin Ladin and it is a cliche from the start to the end. Pure populism. No substance. And we were laughing at Mao red book. We are there now - protecting citizens of Libya by bombing them.
 
 
+2 # George D 2011-05-04 00:03
Great post. Any honest American would read this and know that the points made are 100% true.

I have to admit, hearing that OBL was located and killed, especially the way it went down, did give me a certain feeling of pride in America and reassurance that the right guy made it into the White House.

The Special Ops team can't change the terrible events of 9/11 and the affect they enabled Bush and Cheney to perpetrate on all of America, but they did show us all the difference between a blow hard loser like a GWB and an intelligent and truly courageous leader like Obama. Of course, now we need to see how Obama uses his political capital from all of this. America is ready to see massive troop movement from Iraq and maybe Afghanistan now. Will he do it after the election? We know it won't happen before.

Another thing we saw in all of this is what REAL HEROES are like. The term "hero" has been so over-used that any truck driver or clerk in the PX was one for wearing a uniform. That was to prepare a new generation of canon fodder for the only jobs they had available to them. But the guys that rappelled into that compound and took out OBL; Now THOSE guys are really HEROES.

I only wish I had a better word for them.
 
 
+11 # Glen 2011-05-04 08:04
A good word for "the guys that rappelled into that compound and took out OBL" is ASSASSINS.
 
 
+18 # Dave W. 2011-05-04 11:22
Glen, Good post! And emblematic of the article we've just read. We now celebrate assassination. If the NRA has its way many Americans will be firing AK-47's into the air as we "celebrate."
Much as many do in the countries we're allegedly reforming.Henry II of England, in 1170, once reportedly said, "will no one rid me of this troublesome priest." His request was soon fulfilled. Our "troublesome priest" is now dead as well. Our "troubles" are only exacerbating. WE are now the image in the mirror, the reflection of all we once held dear.
 
 
+28 # billy bob 2011-05-04 08:22
I think it's also interesting that getting bin laden had nothing to do with any "war" we are currently engaged in. We've wasted trillions of dollars on a snipe hunt, rather than just doing what was needed and just going after the guy we supposedly wanted to get in the first place.

To the millions who have died during the past 10 years of diversion from actually getting bin laden:

OOPS! SORRY!

In the end, it didn't take several hundred thousand troops and trillions of dollars, but about 15 people and a couple of helicopters. I'd like my money back from Haliburton and Blackwater now.
 
 
+11 # billy bob 2011-05-04 20:38
And by the way, the people who got bin laden aren't heroes or villains. They're just people who were supposed to do what they were told.

I'm sick of all the military worship going on in this country since 2001. By the same token, they weren't villains either. They were just doing a job. The real world isn't a Bruce Willis movie.
 
 
+8 # GTrout 2011-05-03 23:34
Without the night there can be no dawn.

And you can bet those desperate to gain and hold power understand all the implications quite well.
 
 
+10 # Gregory R. Pool 2011-05-04 00:02
We all lost. Obama and his minions and fundamentalist co-religionist lost and we lost. No one wins at war. Both sides were insensitive and violent, but Obama treated us like things and we treated all Islamists as things and we all sought to destroy the reality of personality and community. Now both sides have to focus on getting back to reality, and may the best side win.
 
 
+14 # giraffee2012 2011-05-04 00:06
I think "W" was responsible for much of what this author said was bin Laden's success. We went to Iraq when bin Laden was in Afghanistan/Pak istan! I'll give more examples tomorrow.
 
 
-11 # dawn99 2011-05-04 00:25
He did not "win".

Infidels are NOT off "sacred" soil.
Hated leaders are NOT removed.
All Americans are NOT dead.

He did NOT achieve his goals.
 
 
-1 # dawn99 2011-05-04 00:27
Our war-against-loc al-terrorism that started in the 1970's never ended.

It has become a series of protection actions. The threat of somebody putting arsnic in our yogurt has never ended. Our protections have just gotten better.
 
 
+18 # thomaf 2011-05-04 00:57
"To a different drummer". Same facts, but, 180% different take on reality. Osama thought he was fighting aggressive invaders, who bribe and kill for access to middle eastern people's land and resources. Since the 1800's the west's been doing it, but, blame attributed to Osama, as the sole bad guy is a disingenuous, self deceiving lie. The world's better off, shit! They have us believing in our inability to achieve peace, through honest, healthy working together achieving the same goals. The market promotes war, to satisfy weapons manufacturers productivity goals. We're puny, despised, schmucks playing footsoldiers for the royal fiefdom chiefs. New Rules: no matter how much money you have, equal sharing of the earths bounty is a human right that should continue to be fought for. There's so much we should be achieving, without the monger's mythical stranglehold over us.
 
 
+24 # Glen 2011-05-04 08:07
Perhaps it is time for citizens to work together and also resist their government attempts to destroy us. Scientists have done so, why not citizens.
 
 
+16 # Dave45 2011-05-04 01:03
Due process and wise judgments have not played much of a role in American foreign policy for quite some time now. Because America's thirst for revenge has supplanted any serious desire for justice, we should not be surprised that the country continues to wallow in the same ethical muck that characterizes the motives of many of its enemies. At least we might now be able finally to put to rest the myth of American "exceptionalism ."
 
 
+23 # hms 2011-05-04 01:19
We also have lost a massive amount of the credibility we had around the world as being the model for justice, and thus broadcast to everyone to now take a closer look at all our warts and blemishes and to ignore what we have long claimed we stand for. A special case is our "democracy" which is increasingly being shown to be anything but--and thus giving us no grounds to spread whatever corrupt system we have to other parts of the world. We don't even see this factor ourselves!
 
 
+16 # SeriousCitizen 2011-05-04 02:04
Now we need to find the organizers and agents who put the demolitions into the four WTC buildings that fell down as if by demolition. Those terrorists are probably hiding out in mansions in Texas and Wyoming, maybe Washington DC. Perhaps the Pakistani ISI knows who they are and where they are and could send commandos to get them.
 
 
+12 # motamanx 2011-05-04 08:08
If Obama really has the power this article says he does, he should get serious about finding those culprits. He says he would rather "look forward". That was a bad call. Nothing can be resolved until what really happened on 9/11 is brought to light.
 
 
+17 # Glen 2011-05-04 08:20
Serious, those particular organizers and terrorists are hiding in plain sight and are, in fact, still operating within the U.S. government and as cheerleaders of same. THEY are the ones who in fact did win and will never be assassinated in their own compounds.
 
 
+10 # RICHARDKANEpa 2011-05-04 03:45
Bin Laden didn’t win yet. Glen Beck or Cheney isn’t yet President. One isn’t yet arrested for not bowing your head when the Star Spangle Banner is blared though the loud speaker or a daily prayer is read.

Bin Laden’s goal of proving that the only way to stop a Western Oppressor from insulting and overwhelming non-Western culture was being even more ruthless than them was defeated in Egypt.

The future could he Egypt if the US would declare a unilateral ceasefire in Afghanistan until there is a terror attack or US troops are attacked. More detail on the last point look for “The Afghan War is almost over if we would again join John Lennon in Imagining Peace.
 
 
+16 # stonecutter 2011-05-04 05:13
I start by admitting I'm an unreconstructed cynic about our government--esp ecially the Executive Branch, the Pentagon and the various affiliated Intel agencies--and it's ability to not only massage or distort facts, but to create faux "reality" out of the "magic" of scripted propaganda or PR, photoshopping, unlimited media manipulation and political calculation, and then to stand behind its creation against all criticisms or revelations to the contrary. To assume what we see and what we're told "officially", through the corporate media, about any event or critical outcome, is the unvarnished truth, absent the handiwork of hundreds of specialists whose job it is to varnish that truth with many coats, is to be sheep, ignorantly and, in the case of OBL's tactical assassination, happily, exuberantly, led to metaphorical slaughter, again and again and again.

Is OBL's death a "good thing"? Of course it is. But to let it go at that would be a dangerous over-simplifica tion. If there's one thing Americans are very good at, it's over-simplifica tion, usually at the cost of uncovering the truth and the likelihood of history repeating itself.

How did OBL remain at large for so many years? Why wasn't he taken out much sooner? What is Pakistan's true responsibility in all this? What is our own? Don't we have "Google Earth"?

Wouldn't you like to know?
 
 
-33 # MidwestTom 2011-05-04 06:04
The next war will be a surprise war in this country. We will now all feel good about the Muslims assimilating in this country and not notice that they have grown from 100,000 in 1970 to 4 million in 2000, by having an average of eight children per family. When they reach the majority in cities and states they will want their religious law to replace our legal system. They openly state that their plan is to out populate the other religions, as done in Lebanon, Nigeria, Chad.and Egypt.
 
 
+18 # George D 2011-05-04 07:59
I sure wish you didn't use the word "Midwest" in your name. You fulfill the distorted image that all people from the Midwest are white, narrow minded, fools that back Teabaggers and Republicans out of fear of other races existing in America. I guess that image may be deserved though. After all, you are doing the same with the word "Muslim" as if America only stands for one race of people and assimilation was never part of the American way or dream.
Yes; You are a fool and one of many. But you are also the most un-American among us, despite the fact that you wrap yourself in the American flag. You need to go back to school and take Civics and Government classes to learn what America really stands for and why your post was so misguided and filled with a racist undertone.
 
 
+13 # MaryWentworth 2011-05-04 06:35
I am amazed that American citizens believe this story. Just for starters when was the last time that our government whether headed by Bush or Obama has told us the truth about this war?
Start with 9/11. There is abundant evidence that it was a put up job for which bin Laden was blamed. Americans were distressed over the innocent civilians killed during that attack. In the supposed-attemp t to get bin Laden, how many innocent civilians have we killed in Afghanistan? We don’t think about the suffering of others, do we? When was the last time that someone in either administration talked about getting bin Laden? Could that be because the man died years ago from kidney failure? Get a grip.
 
 
-4 # George D 2011-05-04 08:10
I am equally amazed Mary, that you and others can ignore the even more overwhelming "evidence" that 9/11 was in fact an attack on our country by radical extremists. "Abundant evidence?" YOU "get a grip" lady. But more importantly, start by getting an education about that "evidence" you portray as "fact" so readily.

Yes, GWB and his cabal has eroded what America stands for and divided this country. But if you can't tell the difference between good leadership and bad; Real threats and fake ones; Real events and invented ones; And insist that everything that you don't see first hand is a lie intended to control you, then you have no more credibility than GWB, Bin Laden or the Teabaggers.

Get a grip yourself and try to learn how to judge reality from your fake, distorted view of the world.
 
 
+13 # Ken Hall 2011-05-04 10:24
For those who don't have serious questions about whether or not 9/11 was a "put up" or inside job, please explain to us what happened to building seven. Why did building seven collapse?
 
 
+12 # Dave W. 2011-05-04 15:39
Ken Hall, "Why did building seven collapse?" Why indeed! There is NO plausible evidence except that it was a "controlled implosion" and had NOTHING to do with the airplanes hitting the towers. Even many of the most liberal/progres sive individuals I've encountered on RSN seem somehow "apprehensive", and occasionally hostile, when asked to "consider" that their OWN government was complicit in that days events. "People always chastise the fiddler of truth with his own bow." Serbian proverb. Think how the nation was transformed by the events of that tragic day. Has history seen leaders willing to "sacrifice" a few of their own to achieve a far more ambitious agenda? To any who say no...perhaps its time to READ some history. To some of the debauched leaders we saw in the Bush Adm., 2,700+ lives would simply be a small down payment.
 
 
-7 # George D 2011-05-04 17:30
I accept a lot of information and discard a lot also. In this life, one needs to develop a good "crap filter" to keep from being made a fool of or worse.

The fuel for conspiracies is something that isn't explained. So along comes a "why did building seven collapse?" or whatever to then be followed by "because it was blown up". Even when another, more plausable explanation is offered, like, "it had the force of debris from the adjacent buildings on it" or "the fires burning inside them weakened the structure" or whatever, it just doesn't feed the emotions as much as "they bombed it; They snuck in the week before, secretly wired it all to blow, called up the CIA and had the fake attack put into motion".

Sorry but, as an engineer, when I hear something really absurd versus something reasonable, I naturally gravitate toward the more reasonable explanation.

Even if I take the huge leap and agree that it was all a big plan that went off flawlessly, how do I THEN make the leap that "that's how they got us all to agree to go to war"? IN IRAQ!

Given Wikileaks and Bradley Manning, am I ALSO supposed to believe they pulled it off without any detection or whistle blowing? That these cowards. who already HAD power, would even RISK a move like that?
 
 
+10 # Ken Hall 2011-05-04 22:43
Sorry, George D, there are plenty of professional engineers and architects who question the series of events we know as 9/11. You can find sites on the web. Let's stick to structural mechanics, the "going to war" thing is a whole other topic. In the official scenario, the tall buildings would be the first steel buildings EVER brought down by fire. They came down vertically, both of them, defying the odds by their symmetrical collapse. Then there's building seven, a steel building destroyed by...? The third steel building EVER, and on the same day as two others, destroyed by fire. No plane hit it to "weaken the structure." There are enough unanswered questions that any thinking person should be skeptical. I'm not one who gives easy credence to conspiracy theories but Occam's razor bets against three buildings collapsing vertically and on the same day, the first of the type ever to be destroyed by fire, and one of them with no apparent severe damage. BTW, I'm also an engineer. My "crap filter" is as good as yours any day.
 
 
+9 # Dave W. 2011-05-05 09:48
George D, You reject out of hand even the possibility of our government being involved in 9/11.The leaders of that government stood much to gain by a perceived "Pearl Harbor" type attack and they "clearly" maximized its effects for the utmost political advantage.Do you deny this? I attended a presentation at my local university conducted by...engineers. Both instructors from the university and independent contractors. They presented a plethora of VERY convincing evidence, asked us to read some scientific related material and to take home a handful of DVD's explaining in detail, with both visuals of the actual devastation and computer models based on the evidence as they saw it.They ONLY asked the members of the audience to keep an open mind and judge for yourself.I sat next to a "structural engineer" from Sacramento, Cal and we talked at length after the presentation. He was VERY disturbed,his words not mine, by what he had seen and heard. If this is all so "absurd" as you imply, then an "open public forum" conducted by a bipartisan commission and including testimony from actual witnesses and engineering and architectural experts culled from a variety of locales should NOT be viewed as "unreasonable." If the "evidence" that leads many of us to "question" the "official" explanation is indeed as "absurd" as you say, then it will be readily exposed and put to rest.Why object?
 
 
+10 # Glen 2011-05-04 16:11
George, once again you appear to accept government reports and "research".

What real evidence do you have that trumps that of world wide researchers on the subject?
 
 
+11 # Glen 2011-05-04 16:09
I'm with you, Mary. The truth is elusive and not supported by the U.S. government. rm, in a post below says it nicely.

The U.S. government has not told the truth about anything for decades, and they DON'T care about the suffering of others.

The U.S. is not the end game with facts. Osama bin Laden has been reported as dead for at least 7 years. There are great posts by folks on this subject that site numerous reasons for us to not believe this elaborate exercise by assassins. We would be well advised to remember the lies of the U.S. government in the past.
 
 
+9 # harbormon 2011-05-04 06:58
Outstanding observations, and one's worth reprinting as often and in as many places as necessary to remind all of us what a small and powerful cabal of greedy and misguided men and women can do in the name of freedom and democracy to subvert and bastardize the very principles we are supposedly fighting and dying for...a sad day as the American political and social culture continues to erode in front of our very eyes, regardless of which political party is in power.
 
 
+12 # Capn Canard 2011-05-04 07:22
Nice commentary, and my thoughts: OBL is dead, but he had been very effective in getting the USA to rewrite it's own policies and laws concerning civil liberties etc. Our nation is standing in a steaming pile of bad policies and there is very limited chance to reverse this sad disaster of the Neo-Con agenda. We've got a Dem president who hasn't done enough to pull back on the reins of self righteous militarism and jingoistic blindness. I would suggest we are in the death throes of American power while OBL and those misguided Muslim believers are like hungry ghosts who strive for the sustenance they'll never get.
 
 
+9 # June Seley Kimmel 2011-05-04 07:39
The worst thing of all since 9/11 is our acceptance of the constant barrage of death. I remember watching Sunday morning t.v. when we were first in Iraq and crying my eyes out with the death of every soldier. I barely pay attention now. It is just too much. Further, I think we will still have hell to pay for the hundreds of thousands we have left dead and wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan. I still support Obama. However, it is time for him to stop acting a bit like W!
 
 
+15 # fredboy 2011-05-04 07:46
Let's be honest, our appointed leaders saw bin Laden as a problem that created vast opportunities. Many in their camp despise freedom and want to control all. Thus the list of bullet points, and more.

During the whole stretch of years in which we gave lip service to the hunt for bin Laden, the guy was a poster boy for the power and control nuts. They shredded the Constitution and international law and gutted our treasury and blamed it all on him.

Now he is gone, silenced, and he leaves a legacy of questions. What did he know?
 
 
+11 # Dave W. 2011-05-04 15:44
fredboy, In truth I don't believe there EVER was a hunt for Bin Laden. His was the needed "face of terror" necessary for our military actions. Once he no longer was needed to perpetuate that myth he was simply disposed of. this country will not militarily leave the Middle East until the oil is gone. It's just that simple.
 
 
+8 # billy bob 2011-05-04 20:33
You're right, and we can't afford to continue colonizing the 3rd world for several decades while forcing ourselves to use an already obsolete fuel source simply to provide huge profit margins for people who haven't yet figured out how to become trillionaires off of the wind and the sun.

The ball is in our court to educate ourselves as voters and attempt to scare political candidates into paying attention to us if they want to get elected.
 
 
+8 # Dave W. 2011-05-05 10:09
billy bob, Agreed,but as to educating ourselves as voters, you'll have to pardon my cynicism. I've probably mentioned that I volunteer as a softball coach at inner city high school in Stockton,Ca. One of the other coaches teaches history at the school. When Bin Laden was announced killed recently he asked his classes their reaction. The "reaction" veered mostly from moot to "who's Bin Laden?" I understand they're high school kids who were children when this happened but you'd think their parents or as is often the case, parent, would have had SOMETHING to say on the subject. What disturbed me more was thinking that these young people,almost exclusively from low income circumstances, will be "prospective" voters soon if not already. It's the lives of kids such as these that will be most adversely affected by further political shifts to the right and yet it would appear that national and world events aren't even on the radar. I know, I was in high school once upon a time and wasn't exactly staying up nights worrying about whether Nixon would be impeached. But my parents DID make sure I knew what was happening and why it was important.I've never missed an opportunity to vote since I turned 18. How many young people in America can say that? This,I believe,is one of the biggest challenges for liberals/progre ssives. Get young people aware and involved. It will be their world soon.
 
 
+7 # billy bob 2011-05-05 12:35
You're absolutely right. I'm a parent and I plan to do the same thing when my kids are old enough. I was a small kid during Vietnam, but had older brothers that were drafted, so politics was part of my world from an early age.

Then again, I bet most of those home skooled right-wingers will be "learning" a lot about politics from their parents.

I think the answer is more funding for public education and more civics requirements. It's getting to the point where the average European knows more about American politics than the average American. Personally, I don't think that's an accident. The very people who are always arguing that education has a left-wing bias are the ones underfunding it.

The one silver lining I see is that, as much as I hate most of what has happened to our society due to the internet, I think people are more politically engaged now, than they were a decade ago. Part of that is because of anger at bush, but part of it might be due to the addtional information that's now easily available for anyone willing to actually look for it.
 
 
+15 # bobby t. 2011-05-04 07:51
Follow the money. Who benefited from the actions taken since 9/11? Only that investigation will start to tell the whole truth of what the hell just happened.
What did oil play in the larger picture of our invasion of Iraq? Is there an oil line that runs east to west out of Iraq?
Were the Brits afraid to be pushed out of the spoils of war by Russia, France, USA, if they didn't send in troops? Was that the reason for Blair's ass kissing of Bush?
All of those things must be brought out to the light of day.
Smoke and mirrors, ladies and gentlemen.
 
 
+20 # rm 2011-05-04 07:57
It is correct to say that the US after 9-11 has become a full blown fascist empire, but Osama bin Laden had nothing to do with it. Why load all of this on Osama. His agenda is much simpler than that. He only wants the US (and Europe) to leave Muslim nations alone so they can develop on their own terms. He is an anti-colonialis t and anti-imperialis t. He never hated America. He only wants it behave in a moral and legal manner. In this demand he is perfectly correct and I believe most people actually support him.

The author assumes that bin Laden was responsible for 9-11. This is just sloppy and stupid thinking. There has been no trial to prove his role in 9-11. There has been no competent investigation of his role or, in fact, of who exactly planned and carried out 9-11. The so-called 9-11 Commission only assumed bin Laden's guilt and then went about boosting up the American police state. Let's give bin Laden the presumption of innocence. Not to do that is to internalize and practice the fascism that the neo-cons have brought to Amerikkka. Not to presume his innocence is to accept the propaganda of the fascist state as true. Then the fascists have won!

Amerikkkan fascism began long before bin Laden was even born. It is the rule by the military-indust rial-banking complex. Pres. Eisenhower saw it growing in the 50s.
 
 
+15 # motamanx 2011-05-04 08:02
Killing Osama bin Laden gets us no closer to finding out what really happened on 9/11. It is no conspiracy theory to disallow what the 9/11 Commission concluded, because a 757 Boeing simply cannot fly into a 16-foot hole in the Pentagon and disappear. I was hoping Obama would have been smart enough to realize that fact, at least.
 
 
+10 # rosan 2011-05-04 08:19
"Better than conquering thousands upon thousands in the war is conquering oneself. This is the true war conqueror."

"Enmity is never appeased by enmity, but by non-enmity. This is the eternal truth here."

- Buddha
 
 
+23 # Maryam 2011-05-04 09:48
MidwestTom: I am a Muslim and have only two children and I do not want any religious law to replace our legal system. Most of the Muslims I know here also have one or two children and are happy with our legal system. Either you are too stupid or you are the one who is brain washed by the extreme right who wants to change your legal system so they can do anything they want by making you scare of the Islamic scare crew.
 
 
+9 # Activista 2011-05-04 21:41
Thank you Maryam - please speak up more. We group up people, label them, without knowing anything about them.
 
 
+14 # stonecutter 2011-05-04 09:52
To George D: Unless you've worked in Intel or the National Security Council, you ought to lighten up on your personal attacks on other commenters who don't automatically accept the truth of this event, simply because your hero president Obama announced it. There's a reason 99% of American law enforcement will not arrest a suspect, let alone prosecute a murder, unless they have in their possession a corpse and/or murder weapon as evidence. it has to do with convincing a jury made up of ordinary citizens that a murder actually happened. Wanting to see OBL's death photos is just a political variation on that theme. Most people want to believe their own eyes, not, sadly, what some politician tells them is true simply because he says it is. Bill Clinton, wagging his finger into the news camera: "I did not have sex with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky!"

If you're a Muslim, you deserve to be tense about the current American paranoia directed at your religion and its adherents, but get a grip on the vitriol directed at others here who don't accept your unqualified trust in Obama or his minions. The bigots know who they are; but skepticism about the president or the Pentagon telling the truth? That seems merely reasonable in light of 10 years of serial lying, starting with the EPA announcing just after 9/11 that the air at Ground Zero was safe to breathe.
 
 
+11 # EDTHEREDPILL 2011-05-04 10:07
More accurately, the Corporate-Milit arist Ruling Class has won. It is THEY who pushed us into their many unnecessary, illegal, endless wars of aggression to pump up support for their war profiteering and destruction of our constitutional rights. It is THEY who created the 2008 economic collapse. And most of us went along with this. As historian Sheldon S. wolin shows in Democracy, Inc., we now live in an "inverted totalitarian" state, where global corporations run our political system only for their own profits.
 
 
+13 # DesignCreature 2011-05-04 10:27
I will say that Osama did what he set out to do...he bankrupted this country, made us live in fear with the help of Bush and company and made us a very hated country that seems to have lost it's soul. So if he's residing with 10,000 virgin mermaids, he should feel more accomplish­ment than some of our very much alive politician­s.
 
 
+7 # Don Thomann 2011-05-04 10:42
Terrorism wins the moment the intended victim jumps into the ring!
 
 
+4 # whatdidimiss 2011-05-04 11:05
The guy who killed 8 people by sabotaging Tylenol also changed our country, and not for the better. Did he win, too?
 
 
0 # RICHARDKANEpa 2011-05-04 11:58
ATT: motamanx #64897,
Pictures relating to Top Secret construction methods were seized off the Internet. Few died on the ground at the Pentagon because allegedly most of that section was closed for repairs. But no construction workers were hurt or interviewed.

No second terror attack meant such as attack would not further bin Laden's goal to hasten Western Bankruptcy. Clearly if bin Laden could have been in the center of things he could have had a second major attack, but the draft is a far less expensive way to fight than private contractors supplemented by a few US troops, and notice every attack meant more money spent. If he hit the far more venerable highway system\, more Westerners would save money and resources on public transit.
 
 
+2 # violabby 2011-05-04 14:49
"Full of Sound and Fury and signifying nothing" - this quote from William Shakespeare's applies to all that has been said about Osama Bin Laden. Do you really thinks there are no other leaders of Al Qaeda out there? Al Qaeda is like the mythological Hydra- multi-headed, and with a head springing up when one was cut off. We're putting our own innocent heads out there for another chopping.
 
 
+3 # billy bob 2011-05-05 18:32
In fact we're creating more terrorists as we speak while we torture and maim their families.
 
 
+13 # genierae 2011-05-04 16:57
The rise of Osama bin Laden was made possible by the crimes of empire and so who is really responsible for the devastation he visited upon us? Take a good hard look at history and you will see that he was justified in his hatred of the United States government. I do not excuse him for his murder of civilians, I do not blame his victims, but he had solid reasons for his implacable hostility to our way of life. I am equally hostile to it. We have become a decadent society, ruled over by a corrupt and incorrigible government, and we haven't the will or the strength to organize and reclaim our rights. Our children are poorly educated, they are fed a diet of violence and propaganda, taught to hate those who are different, and encouraged to become cannon fodder for the glory of America. Their environment is polluted, their water laced with poisons, the very earth that they depend on for life is being destroyed. They are lied to from birth, chewed up and spit out, all this so that rich white men can increase their obscene bottom lines. From one of bin Laden's speeches which I paraphrase: "We will stop killing you when you stop killing us. When you allow us to live in peace, you will also have peace." He was not the monster he was made out to be, he was just a man who was radicalized by his betrayal in Afghanistan, courtesy of the United States government. Rally round the flag, boys!
 
 
+6 # dontfear? 2011-05-04 17:37
Umm i was going to write a statement but you summed it up so perfect i need not
 
 
+9 # stonecutter 2011-05-05 07:11
To genierae:
Very trenchant comment, requiring the reader to consider the descending arc of our society from its post-WWII, Korean War apex 60 years ago--a decade or more before the horror of Viet Nam began the slow pollution of the well--and the current decadence you so rightly describe, marked by, among so many other blights, political inertia on the part of most young people (not to mention "Dancing With the Stars" and "Celebrity Apprentice").

Until we see many more young Americans once again making their voices heard beyond Facebook and the Internet echo chamber (where they remain "penned up" by the real power outside), in the real world of struggle, the way we've seen it in Egypt, last year in Iran, last month in Madison, WI, we'll be stuck in the ditch we've dug for ourselves, a static paradigm based on endless fearmongering, diminished standard of living, raging unemployment and underemployment , hatred of all Muslims and who-knows-who's -next?, and political impotence as we observe the daily, self-serving circus in Washington.

After WWII, it was said of the German People, regarding the Nazi regime, that they "got the government they deserved". Considering the arc from JFK to LBJ to Nixon to Reagan to Clinton to Bush II to Obama (a slight uptick, but slight), the same can be said for us.
 
 
+9 # hasapiko 2011-05-05 13:11
I agree but take it one step further: he targeted Wall Street and the Pentagon, the two pillars of American imperialism, not innocent civilians. And on the subject of diets, we are now being fed Gaddafi the total bad guy. Not by coincidence, he has been planning to stop selling oil in dollars. He who tries to upset the petrodollar wagon must be eliminated.
 
 
+6 # Rick Levy 2011-05-05 06:14
"There was something unsettling about watching giddy crowds bounce around beach balls and climb telephone polls last night, as if they were in the lawn seats at a rock festival. Solemn and somber appreciation that an evil man is gone seemed like the more appropriate reaction..."

I second that emotion. That was my initial feeling and I thought that I was alone in that sentiment. Good to know that wasn't the case.
 
 
+6 # Pikewich 2011-05-05 22:51
Am I alone in wondering if he was assassinated because what he would have said in a trial would not be something our government wanted us to hear?

That he was not the mastermind behind 911, but he helped fund it?

That 1500 licensed architects and engineers have evidence the 3 WTC building were brought down by explosives puts the whole "Osama did it" into question?

Lastly what has this country become when the rule of law is set aside in favor of extrajudicial murder?
 
 
+6 # DearKlare 2011-05-06 00:29
Couldn't have said it better myself! Be afraid--be very afraid--of the U.S. government and pale white men who resemble Lord Voldemorte. My question is this: If the U.S. could cherry pick OBL, then why couldn't they do the same with Saddam Hussein rather than laying waste to the country of Iraq, killing one million of its citizens and sending another four million of them into refugee camps or fleeing to other countries? Why did the U.S. have to bomb the hell out of Iraq if the U.S. military machine had the means to go after just one man alone??? None of this makes any sense to me. But I do know this--I will never rest until George W. Bush, Richard B. Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and Condoleeza Rice are brought to justice for masterminding the attack on the sovereign nation of Iraq. Yes, Saddam was a cruel and murderous dictator but does that give the United States the right to go in and kill a million more of Iraq's citizens? Justice must be served in our own country as well, and I would like nothing better than to see our own WAR CRIMINALS BROUGHT TO JUSTICE! So sick of the lies, lies, lies and propaganda being fed to us by our own government. It is enough to make you sick or go running off as an expatriate to another country, preferably one that is neutral in world affairs and has NO MILITARY!!!!!! Bless all the intelligent people here posting who abhor U.S. baloney
 
 
0 # DearKlare 2011-05-06 00:42
Dear RSN,

I am waiting for you to add my comment. What gives?
 
 
+5 # tj 2011-05-06 02:10
americans are very dumbed down.this carnival reaction to the killing of obl is typical.doesn't surprise me at all.we've been duped.our minds and bodies have been polluted by the incessant corruption of our basic needs as human beings.our daily bread has been modified into something that bears no resemblance to what our grandparents knew it to be.we can thank the trans-fat folks for that,and,of course,our politicians who receive pay back for letting it happen.our major source of information,TV, has been reduced to sensationalism.
fox news.reality TV.this recent demonstration,t his outpouring of pent up frustration,thi s flag waving patriotism...it makes me sick.look at us!
for the large part we're an overweight, ill informed herd of sheep.bleating merrily at the moment...
 
 
0 # RICHARDKANEpa 2011-05-06 05:15
Thank you George D for trying to put some sanity to the subject.

However before 9/11 Richard Perle was calling for a new Pearl Harbor, Cheney kept dragging President Bush to hear him talk, and getting CIA and FBI agents fired for doing a good job, insisting that not sharing of intelligence be adhered to in a totally brittle way to make sure it interfered in the gathering of intelligence. Much of the nonsense of an overwhelming conspiracy, came from these small conspirators, so Chaney’s criminal purposely incompetence would hardly show through.

There was going to be a Truth Commission like in South Africa, where people like Cheney could have been jailed if he didn’t reveal all of their crimes and apologize for it. He probably wouldm’t have cooperated, but this was sabotaged by those who pushed 9/11 Truth toward over the cliff. By the way al Qaeda has an amazing knack to escape from prison, even US detention centers at US bases in Afghanistan. There is a bloodbath of Sufi shrines blown up, while Sufis worship because bin Laden thought Sufism gave Islam a soft underbelly. The Awakening Council members Sunnis, who sided with the US are being slowly killed in Iraq. If 9/11 was the only al Qaeda slaughter the massive conspiracy theories may make some sense.
Important link
www.opednews.com/articles/genera_michael__071030_questioning_9_2f11_and.
 
 
0 # RICHARDKANEpa 2011-05-06 12:08
Sorry, this is Richard Kane again. Somehow a period was at the end of the important link in my previous comment about people joining 9/11 truth to steer it in unproductive directions,


www.opednews.com/articles/genera_michael__071030_questioning_9_2f11_and



Rep. Robert Wexler went from being Sharon of Israel as a US Representative. Later he pushed Dennis Kucinich to add impeach Bush to his Impeach Chaney resolution. Didn't run for reelection for some unknown reason despite being way ahead in the polls to being a lobbyist at a so-called peace in the middle east firm.

A man who ran for Congress on the La Rouche for President ticket later became prominent in 9/11 Truth and many other examples, which by the way in no way relate to Israel.

To me all this is spilt milk, but new things come along which by the way in no way relate to Israel that I hesitate to talk about out of fear of smearing innocent people.
 
 
+6 # BellBuoy 2011-05-06 15:22
I'm relieved to read so many similar sentiments to my own. Remember people: America's number one export is WEAPONS. War uses them and ammo up. Without war our "economy" is truly gone.
When oh when will we unite and rise up against the criminally insane ruling class? They are right there in those gated communities on the outskirts of town. Playing golf and laughing all the way to the bank. When?
 

THE NEW STREAMLINED RSN LOGIN PROCESS: Register once, then login and you are ready to comment. All you need is a Username and a Password of your choosing and you are free to comment whenever you like! Welcome to the Reader Supported News community.

RSNRSN