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Bolivia's Evo Morales wants to apply traditional indigenous values to climate change problems. Naomi Klein wants to talk about that.

Bolivian President Evo Morales in Copenhagen, 12/16/09. (photo: Bob Strong/Reuters)
Bolivian President Evo Morales in Copenhagen, 12/16/09. (photo: Bob Strong/Reuters)

 

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+8 # Daniel Fletcher 2010-04-23 02:49
I am grateful that this article makes me aware of and uncomfortable about ethnocentric thinking of a kind that I've indulged in too often myself. It's too easy to overlook small third world countries when discussing environmental and climate issues. It hadn't occured to me the extent to which we fail to see how we damage the climate and environment of other countries who are systematically under heard in larger world bodies. Worse, countries like Bolivia are not participating in the damage of their climate and nothing they can do themselves can mitigate the damage being done to them from outside.

Isn't it time that first world countries come to realize that third world countries have the same, identical right to survive? That this right is not porportionally greater for us simply because we are bigger? Isn't it the responsibility of larger, more powerful nations, to seek to vigorously protect the smaller from the excesses of the larger?
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+3 # Harold Mencher 2010-04-23 06:49
Daniel, in the same way that financial institutions ignore & could care less about the public outrage against them for destroying the U.S. economy in the name of greed & wealth, while, at the same time, pay themselves extraordinary & ludicrous bonuses, the developed nations of the world could care less about what is best for the developing nations, the 3rd world nations of the world in the name of supporting those very wealthy corporations that donate millions of dollars to political campaigns. We'll rape these countries of their energy resources & their mineral wealth without so much as a thought or a regret, without any remorse as to what happens to the indigenous people. The political leaders of countries like the U.S. & France & Britain will espouse their desire to bring Democracy to these 3rd world nations, by military force if necessary only to being pain & suffering to the indigenous people. This is unfortunately the way of human nature.
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+5 # Eric 2010-04-23 09:12
Harold, you are exactly right. Time and time again history has taught us that countries act in their own self interest. We only have to look recently to the United States control over oil in the middle east or the later example of Britan and France dividing up Arabia after WWI in the self-serving Sykes-Picot Agreement.

I will make a prediction that if the electric car takes off in the next ten years and the need for lithium grows, the US will find a reason to go to war with Bolivia.
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+4 # Eric 2010-04-23 06:52
Morales needs to develop his lithium industry if he wants to save his country. It all comes down to money and resources. Nobody cares about a small country with nothing to offer.
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+4 # Harold Mencher 2010-04-23 07:05
It's unfortunate, but Evo Morales of Bolivia & Hugo Chavez of Venezuela are living on borrowed time. The evil brains in Washington never ever sleep. 24/7 our wonderful leaders & thinkers in Washington are working to overthrow countries that have our oil & natural gas resources as well as our critical minerals that are unfortunately underneath their ground. Venezuela has huge reserves of oil & natural gas that we want under our conditions, & Bolivia also has oil & natural gas as well as, unfortunately, one of the largest Lithium deposits in the world, an element that is critical to the making of new & high efficient batteries needed to power our new hybrid & electric cars, & our computers & iphones & ipads. It's easy for the U.S. to overthrow countries in Latin America. We bribe people that are close to power to instigate a coup, or we assassinate the leaders & put someone into power that's our puppet. Honduras was the beginning.
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+3 # Marc Bilz 2010-04-23 07:19
Hmmm, a threat to U.S hegemony and the control exerted by and on behalf of the multi-national corporations? Clearly this is the direction we need to go in. We need people like Naomi Klein to help shift the language of the debate. We need to stop calling the Kleptocracy a democracy and to become more clear about what we will call a system that ensures the maximum personal freedoms, and at the same time curbs abuse of those freedoms (like rampant consumerism.
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+4 # Arachne646 2010-04-23 07:52
We've heard before that the global south is and will suffer the earliest and worst effects of global warming. (Tuvalu is an island country in the Pacific Ocean), but you and I will feel the pinch a lot sooner than we think. This article is up to Naomi's intriguing standard, but if we're trying to convince our friends and neighbours to pressure government,(Can ada's is particularly unwilling) we might do better to focus more on the self-interest of human beings in the Global North; who won't be spared the pangs of climate change, versus Corporations, who will make money either way. Of course the Global South should not get all the sh*t of climate change while the North gets the oil and coal--but that's the way it's worked for hundreds of years. The Bolivian process is something really worth watching, and maybe a tool of change for more than climate.
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+5 # howard 2010-04-23 09:18
In case you didn't know, Canada shares a lot of similarities with other impoverished banana republics: raw materials, resources, ignorant citizens just trying to make ends meet. And a government who represents the interests of American corporations as its own. But we get to drive the same cars as you and we just pray you ignore us as much as possible. Our government , like any tinpot regime is blithely ignoring the people to toe the line of the big boys in the north. We are just so grateful to get invited to the G8/G20 every year as long as we can still pay our mortgages.

Sorry , what was that about global warming? I can't hear you, they stuffed tar sands in my ears.
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+3 # Harold Mencher 2010-04-23 12:52
Howard, the following is a msg that I had sent to another Canadian:

Fire PM Stephen Harper, & get someone in there that has the courage & the huevos to tell the U.S. to stick it where the Sun doesn't shine. Get someone to lead Canada as a sovereign nation, independent of any influence or pressure by the U.S., & make sure that when you do have elections, that the U.S. in no way interferes in the internal affairs of Canada as they did in Mexico. You have a beautiful country. I think that it's worth fighting for, don't you? Many prominent peace activists in the U.S. have been prohibited from entering your country because of Harper. Why is that? You need to purge your govt of Harper & all of his cronies, & you need to allow U.S. soldiers, who don't want to kill, or no longer want to kill, anymore in illegal wars of aggression by the U.S., full & complete unfettered sanctuary in your country as your country allowed to happen during the Vietnam war.
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+3 # howard 2010-04-23 15:45
Agreed on all points. Thank you.
Perhaps we should start by turning our gaze toward our own myopic world view, and start owning our sins of omission.
Hey Naomi, care to turn your investigative torch homeward for a while?
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+2 # Daniel Fletcher 2010-04-23 22:58
Howard M, I would call you a cynic but to be honest you are a realist and most thinking people will value this highly. I do. I admire your advice to Canada. It reveals a light of idealism in you I find admirable. As for the US, your views are painfully valid. Idealists like me recoil at words you've used because we want to believe that in America there is at least a nascent desire to strive for greatness, for decency and for brotherhood. We want to believe that beneith the veneer of viscious greed and moral corruption there is still a national spirit yearning for something better. We like the image of being the shining city on the hill but you reveal the fantasy of this which is shattered by the very fact of our national deeds as opposed to our words.
How do YOU cope with the truth, namely that as a country we're a pariah to everything decent and good as though a psychopath on steroids? That we are so blinded by self interest that depravity in the service of our wants is a virtue?
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+1 # Harold Mencher 2010-04-24 08:58
Daniel, I think you got my 1st name confused with Howard's. It's close, but no cigar. Like you, I've been around a long time, & like many people today who haven't experienced the world as we have, I was easily fooled when I was young during the Vietnam war. Like many people then, I felt that we had to stop communism, that we had to draw a line in the sand & tell both China & Russia not to cross it, & that was Vietnam. So, I can understand how young & inexperienced Americans today could fall into that same trap. Unfortunately, that will probably always be the case in perpetuity. If the U.S. wasn't around, there would probably be some other nation to take our place. It's simply the way of human nature. The only difference between individual humans & nations is that nations, who act like individual humans would normally act, have a much larger effect in the world. And that's why I don't think that the human race has much time on this planet.
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+2 # Harold Mencher 2010-04-24 09:15
Daniel, I'm a 2nd gen born U.S. citizen. My grandparents came from Russia during the pogroms in the early part of the 20th century. I know I sound extremely unpatriotic in my feelings to my home country, but I refuse to be a good Nazi. One can easily compare the Germans during Hitler's period who supported his heinous policies with Americans today who have their blinders on to what's really going on around them. The world condemned Hitler & those Germans who went along with his game. By Bush's definition of patriotism, one can say that German citizens were patriotic in their support of Hitler. Both Hitler & U.S. leaders have used fear to justify the heinous crimes that they've committed (i.e., torture was okay for us to use because of 9/11, but not okay for anyone else to use). The only way to render the U.S. toothless is for nations like Canada, Britain & France to turn their backs to us, to refuse to support the wrongs that we commit.
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+1 # howard 2010-04-24 10:08
May I address you and Daniel?The perception from Canada is that the US is largely a Jekyll and Hyde apparatus. I often remark that I never meet the America I loath, by which I mean that americans like most nationalities are powerfully human in person, yet hideously distorted in their national personae, ie governments.
As Pierre Trudeau once observed, the mouse who sleeps with an elephant must be, above, all vigilant. We are that mouse.
The same could be said of a people like you and your military industrial complex. Except that you haven't been. And long before you began to feel the pinch of wall street and china, the rest of the world was well aware that the american Mr Hyde stalked the land.
Drop the patriotic visors and rediscover your love of fellow man. Its time americans came in from the cold (war) and joined the rest of us.
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+1 # Daniel Fletcher 2010-04-24 12:42
Harold Mencher and Howard, I appreciate your elegant replies. Harold, your scathing indictment on the US is profoundly correct. I agree yet I retain an innocence that makes me feel a tad disoriented at times, though a vet like you. The more I grasp of our unrealized potential, the more elated...and despairing I become. Howard, you correctly perceive the chasm between who we would like to be, and on an individual level we come across pretty well (per you & Canadian friends), but on a national level we are monstrous and our only collective salvation lies in the fact that our country does NOT represent us, or so I would hope. Thus, the failure of our Democracy is that it has not reined in the violent impulses of empire that our powerful possess. Harold, we share common history. How are we to express our love of country without defying it vigorously? How do we resolve the difference between who we are based on our collective acts, and who we aspire to be? Harold & Howard: You seem to care. Thanks.
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+1 # Harold Mencher 2010-04-24 15:40
Daniel, I care, but I no longer, as you & I have discussed before, have any hope of regaining any semblance of a Democracy here in the U.S. We're passed the point of no return. When politicians still refer to the U.S. as a Democracy in statements, I cringe. It's one of the those button things. Short of a 1776-style revolution, there's no hope of changing anything. Even our elections have been hijacked from us via the use of corrupt & fraudulent e-voting machines which the Dems have done nothing to outlaw. My response to Howard is that I have been fighting this system from even before Bush stole the 2000 pres election. I knew that Bush intended to saturate the federal courts with as many of his extremist judges, most especially the Supreme Court, & he succeeded beyond his wildest dreams, 300+ judges, thanks to the gutless wonders called Dems. Unfortunately, it seemed that very few people were aware of this critical goal by Bush, & it's a shame.
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+3 # foxtrot tango 2010-04-24 14:08
The truth to the matter is, the USA has stolen every thing at the point of a gun.

The nation is in a state of immorality, confusion, terrified and self denial. A good example is the newly created police fascist state of Arizona where madness has taken over.

Mexico has already stated that it will boycott everything coming from Arizona. My belief is, they should stop all good and materials and especially the oil coming from Mexico.

Compare to Great Britain or Canada, both nation have great people, highly educated, well supported with health care while the USA basks in ignorance, arrogance, bigotry, racism and self denial.
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+1 # Harold Mencher 2010-04-24 15:57
foxtrot, what's ironic is that I feel much the same way you do about the Canadians, the Brits, the French & most of the people in the EU, but we have a dichotomy here. Whenever I get a chance to bump into a Canadian or a Brit in any chat room, I always ask the question as to why, if they so disliked Bush, & if they felt that the American people were idiots for voting Bush in for a 2nd term in 2004, why did they always seem to vote a U.S. lap dog in as their leader, Stephen Harper of Canada, Tony Blair & Gordon Brown of Britain, & Nicolas Sarkozy of France, not to mention Angela Merkel of Germany, people who jumped thru U.S. hoops like trained seals, & who continue to do so, Iran being a good example of what I'm talking about. Even after being fooled & deceived by Bush into attacking Iraq, they're now falling for the same trick when it comes to Iran. It makes no sense. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
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0 # howard 2010-04-26 08:32
Democracy is a tricky and slippery fish. Self interest frequently trumps morality. If you examine the voting history of Canada and the EU countries you will likely find that Voting provincially or statewise vs voting federally usually shows a divergence of politics. Liberal provincially vs conservative federally or vice versa.The additional ingredient in America is the militarization of society both overtly expressed by capital P patriotism, America uber ales, and covertly, CIA and the adulation of gun culture as a solution to society's ills. You will find nothing like that in other countries so we feel more or less secure voting conservative as it doesn't automatically mean pro war to us. Witness NATO involvement by choice. Despite intense pressure previous Prime minister Chretien said no to Iraq war but yes to Afghanistan. And the latter has a firm "get out" date attached.
Love it or hate it, at least we got there democratically and with paper ballots.
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0 # Harold Mencher 2010-04-28 08:20
Howard, you make things sound so complicated. For all intents & purposes, in the end, you're still sending precious young people to die in illegal wars of aggression, mostly U.S. instigated, for world empire. In essence, you're supplying cannon fodder in support of U.S. imperialism, wars fought for intl corporatism.

The whole basis for EU participation in Afghanistan, again a U.S. war of aggression, was 9/11. If 9/11 didn't occur, Canada nor the EU would be involved, at least I hope not. So, my question to you is, "Why did the world believe that al-Qaeda & the Taliban were the perpetrators of 9/11?" Was it because Bush & Cheney said so, 2 proven chronic & pervasive liars. Was it because of confessions that were extracted by torture? You would have confessed under torture! Or was it because of that film that Bush claimed was found in Afghanistan, one that has been proven to be a fraud? Where's the evidence for all of this violence?
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+1 # Daniel Fletcher 2010-04-24 19:16
Alright Harold. We really are past the point of no return, at least in as much that a national about face is not going to happen as doing so would require that a full and open disclosure of all wrongs be made, and this would not be tolerated. I concede your points as I know perfectly well that the death of American democracy began with corporations achieving the status of personhood in the late 19th century and given the current composition of the courts and the power of the corporations our republic has ceased being a government of, by and for the people.

My rose colored lenses are coming off. I know that my love of Jeffersonian democracy will not find expression in this culture. I'd say that it's up to our children to fight the battles ahead but as you know, mine left the country in utter disgust with America.

If the best I can do is to rant and rave against the darkness as I plunge into it, then, mad poet that I am, my destiny is defined already. I cannot go quietly. Don't you.
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+1 # Harold Mencher 2010-04-24 20:54
Daniel, I live in AZ. I don't know if you heard about this, but before AZ's illustrious governor signed that idiotic Bill that gives a police officer the right to stop anyone to check their legal status in this country, an incident had already happened which is an omen as to what we can now expect. An Hispanic truck driver pulled into a weighing station. He was then questioned by a police officer without any probable cause. He was asked if he had his birth certificate with him asif people normally carry theirs with them. He obviously didn't have it with him. He told the officer that it was at his home. He showed the officer his U.S. commercial drivers license & his social security card, but that wasn't good enough. He was arrested, put in chains, put in the police car, and hauled off to jail. His wife, before she went down with his birth certificate to release him, made sure that she had hers with her as well so as not to get arrested herself.
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+1 # Daniel Fletcher 2010-04-25 16:21
Harold, I've caught up on this issue and am very disturbed. If such a law were passed in my state, California, and who knows that it won't, it would be bedlam. It isn't possible to discern between legal and illegal on appearance alone and the subsequent civil unrest would be severe and prolonged.
It is so easy for me to say what I would do if I were hispanic, so maybe I am being somewhat disingenuous, but if I were that truck driver, I'd demand that the police officer show me HIS birth certificate and if he didn't have it, I would refuse to cooperate even if it meant being beaten and charged with resisting arrest. My next course would be to resist in the courts. I'd mobilize my neighbors to assist me in making citizens arrests of all government agents who failed to produce a birth certificate. Here in southern California, I would seek to organize a massive general strike were such a law to pass.
Ya' know, I might just support and join such an action if the times warrant it.
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0 # J.A. Somers 2010-04-28 04:19
Naomi is a brilliant Lady who radiates and lives a "Social Conscience" because of her honesty and concern for her fellow humans she sees the lies, the abuse and the thievery being perpetuated by Corporations, Canadian and American "AIDED and ABETTED by governments literally owned, lock, stock and barrel. BUT the biggest source of that power is from a media that has been taken over by Corporations and the propaganda never ceases...Like the brainwashing that many thought originated from the Korean War.....Believe me it is still pumping out crap for Corporation dominance. "The New World Order"
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